A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Parapsychology

Member

09-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontChangeRengar View Post
Yes it's been to quiet lately. Waitin to hear an update for quite sometime.

I'm still pushing for Q bleed damage and a merge of the bola strikes though (see page 332)

I mean come on! The savagery ability icon has blood in it!

This is such an excellent idea, adding bleed to Q. This can allow Riot to tune Rengar's burst like they wanted, but allow his sustained fighting to be a monster.


Here's the idea:

Savagery

Rengar's next basic attack becomes empowered, causing it to do an additonal (100% AD) and bleed for an additional 30/50/70/90/110 (10%AD) each second for 2 seconds.

Passive: Bleeding target's take an additional X% physical damage from all sources.




The passive adds some nice lategame scaling for teamfight presence.


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DontChangeRengar

Junior Member

09-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parapsychology View Post
-Snip-
My intention with the idea was just that, keep the damage of savagery but make it only half of damage up front, I like the addon to your idea but the increase in all damage should apply only to empowered Q but be a slightly bigger percentage.

You guys should really check out page 332 for my bola strike idea. If you like the idea of savagery getting a bleed effect.

Edit: I'll just post it here, despite obvious redundancies of quoting ones self

Quote:
IN THE INTEREST of keeping both parties happy with the Bola change I propose that Bola be merged with it's current LIVE version and it's skill-shot version that you propose.

See Viktors E as an example.

Inside the current range of the Bola Strike, it will be targeted, OUTSIDE the target range the ability is no longer targeted as with the current version but becomes a skill shot with improved ranged, damage and slow (not as much as if it was just a pure skillshot!)
It was well received by other Rengar players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talohmiir View Post
I happen to like this idea, I am a Rengar main and would like to see this picture be the base cuz I like both, but for balance reasons I would say the autolock distance should be a bit smaller. Good thinking tho, hadn't thought of this yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THUNDERMINE View Post
If his bola is going to be a skillshot it better have double the range!!!!!

Make his empowered bola non-skillshot, end of bola arguments.

Also the guy above me has a good idea
^this guy was talking about my idea but never mentioned me specifically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleboo View Post
This guy is a true Gengar hero. May the gengar be with you!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notalent View Post
I'd actually love if they gave Rengar's E vector targeting and let it ignore minions or pierce
Again as I said many pages ago, I'd like to see my fellow Rengar have input on these proposed changes, and I'd love for someone at riot to even just see them!

Second Edit:If I was to make the new Q, I'd do it like this 100% of AD in upfront damage, swing reset, bleed damage scaling with level of q (100, 110, 120, 130, 140% of AD)

Quote:
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand

Attached Images
File Type: jpg RengarNEWBolaStrike.jpg (651.9 KB, 157 views)

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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Scarizard itsbeen a week, any updates? Would it be possible for him to make an apperance in PBE the way Xelnath said Xerath might?


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

09-04-2013
64 of 81 Riot Posts

Sup dudes! Got back from PAX last night and busy playing catch-up this morning. Played Rengar today and have to say i'm pretty excited. End score was 10/4/16 iirc, with the lowest deaths and 2nd highest kills on my team.

(For those that care about anecdotes) - Laned vs Renekton. Maxed W since i got to lane later after helping a jungler out, which got him pushing vs me early. Used W2 to Sustain, but since all Ferocity bonuses are champion-level scaled atm, still got to reap the beenfits of high Armor/MR and pushing power as well as Q-Train (Although my extended all-ins were considerably weaker than if i had the +DMG/+AS% from Q levels).

Got the first kill of the lane vs him, then died getting outplayed (both of us were below 100 hp iirc) and so we basically conceded to farm. Felt fairly comfortable, used my Ult to roam and kill mid comfortably by Sprinting past his wards, then stealthing from a flank combo'd with my midlaner's CC.

Maxed Q 2nd, ended up doing enough damage with Q-Train and BOTRK as well as utilizing top brushes to chase down Renekton and 1v1 him.

Endgame build was Blade of the Ruined King, Mercury Treads, Frozen Mallet, Last Whisper, Bonetooth Necklace and a Kindlegem (With intent to Spirit Visage) - played a flexible peeler for my Carry by utilizing high Attack Speed with Frozen Mallet procs onto dudes like Nocturne and Renekton, but the most fun was using Thrill of the Hunt to run from a fight...only to double back around the brush i had exited (Since i had vision of the enemy team) and Stealth Ambush two mid-hp damage dealers that thought they had won the teamfight and wanted to push objectives.

Game ended in a Victory around the 30-35m mark.

Analysis outside of this game (as well as this game) seems to suggest that his Toplane is pretty strong vs a lot of melees, pending you use your W2 as a fallback should you be behind. (Remember! With Q-train, it's possible to Q, Q2, W, E, W2 all in a very short window, netting you great trade damage and the health swing from W2!)

He's scaling pretty well with gold, too - i posted about the insane stompy Xelnath game where he even went so far as to get Zerker Greaves and an IE and had over 400 AD and was one-shotting people. Endgame, anyone mid-hp was instantly dead to my Q2->Q->E->Q2->W Flurry, and was an appropriate threat to members of the enemy team.

Confidence level is pretty high atm that this can start going into Competitive testing, pending two things:

1. Code Review with Volty - this is something we do where Designers check eachothers' scripting to see edge/abuse cases that may be present, as well as those that may cause bugs. Essential to moving forward with QA Coverage so a champion is bug-free.

2. VFX/Smoothing on the Ultimate. Tl;dr here is that the Sprint/Stalk is working out really well in terms of the gameplay it's providing (Had some fail escapes, some sick jukes, some chase cleanups, some initiations and some stealth ganks) in that its truly flexible as an Ult if you premeditate it, but it's unclear currently in some playing against cases When or If i will stealth.

My confidence is still in the Re-cast version of the ult, but particle support when he attempts to 'fade', removing the built-in delay to re-cast but re-implementing fadetime-delay on damage taken as well as a few other things are on the table as potential necessary places to move to smooth out the pure feel of using this ult.

Just an update to let you guys know where things are at. We're pretty close to mechanics-locked at this point (meaning no drastic spell changes), but there is always room for tweaks and tuning across the board and i'm working closely with the team to figure out where any of it is necessary. If things continue as planned, i'd say i'm shooting for 3.13. 3.12 is unlikely, mostly due to the amount of time we'd need to account for bugfixing to ensure a safe patch release - but regardless of when it ships, it should be on PBE relatively soon for you guys to take a crack at.

Thanks for sticking with the thread and giving me a ton of feedback, good and bad. Can't wait for y'all to play it.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
i'd say i'm shooting for 3.13. 3.12 is unlikely, mostly due to the amount of time we'd need to account for bugfixing to ensure a safe patch release - but regardless of when it ships, it should be on PBE relatively soon for you guys to take a crack at.


Holy......



Start the day with Awesome Pokemon news.


End the day with Awesome Rengar news.


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Vladamphir

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Sup dudes! Got back from PAX last night and busy playing catch-up this morning.
Hey Scarizard, thx for the update on Rengar devolopment. Was just wondering if you had anything new on Bonetooth Necklace?, I tried to catch your attention with http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...tooth+necklace.

That post was just an idea, but I was curious if you feel like you've got BTN in a good place now?
Thx for any feedback, Can't wait to get my hands on the new Rengar!


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ShiznazTM

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Sup dudes! Got back from PAX last night and busy playing catch-up this morning. Played Rengar today and have to say i'm pretty excited. End score was 10/4/16 iirc, with the lowest deaths and 2nd highest kills on my team.

(For those that care about anecdotes) - Laned vs Renekton. Maxed W since i got to lane later after helping a jungler out, which got him pushing vs me early. Used W2 to Sustain, but since all Ferocity bonuses are champion-level scaled atm, still got to reap the beenfits of high Armor/MR and pushing power as well as Q-Train (Although my extended all-ins were considerably weaker than if i had the +DMG/+AS% from Q levels).

Got the first kill of the lane vs him, then died getting outplayed (both of us were below 100 hp iirc) and so we basically conceded to farm. Felt fairly comfortable, used my Ult to roam and kill mid comfortably by Sprinting past his wards, then stealthing from a flank combo'd with my midlaner's CC.

Maxed Q 2nd, ended up doing enough damage with Q-Train and BOTRK as well as utilizing top brushes to chase down Renekton and 1v1 him.

Endgame build was Blade of the Ruined King, Mercury Treads, Frozen Mallet, Last Whisper, Bonetooth Necklace and a Kindlegem (With intent to Spirit Visage) - played a flexible peeler for my Carry by utilizing high Attack Speed with Frozen Mallet procs onto dudes like Nocturne and Renekton, but the most fun was using Thrill of the Hunt to run from a fight...only to double back around the brush i had exited (Since i had vision of the enemy team) and Stealth Ambush two mid-hp damage dealers that thought they had won the teamfight and wanted to push objectives.

Game ended in a Victory around the 30-35m mark.

Analysis outside of this game (as well as this game) seems to suggest that his Toplane is pretty strong vs a lot of melees, pending you use your W2 as a fallback should you be behind. (Remember! With Q-train, it's possible to Q, Q2, W, E, W2 all in a very short window, netting you great trade damage and the health swing from W2!)

He's scaling pretty well with gold, too - i posted about the insane stompy Xelnath game where he even went so far as to get Zerker Greaves and an IE and had over 400 AD and was one-shotting people. Endgame, anyone mid-hp was instantly dead to my Q2->Q->E->Q2->W Flurry, and was an appropriate threat to members of the enemy team.

Confidence level is pretty high atm that this can start going into Competitive testing, pending two things:

1. Code Review with Volty - this is something we do where Designers check eachothers' scripting to see edge/abuse cases that may be present, as well as those that may cause bugs. Essential to moving forward with QA Coverage so a champion is bug-free.

2. VFX/Smoothing on the Ultimate. Tl;dr here is that the Sprint/Stalk is working out really well in terms of the gameplay it's providing (Had some fail escapes, some sick jukes, some chase cleanups, some initiations and some stealth ganks) in that its truly flexible as an Ult if you premeditate it, but it's unclear currently in some playing against cases When or If i will stealth.

My confidence is still in the Re-cast version of the ult, but particle support when he attempts to 'fade', removing the built-in delay to re-cast but re-implementing fadetime-delay on damage taken as well as a few other things are on the table as potential necessary places to move to smooth out the pure feel of using this ult.

Just an update to let you guys know where things are at. We're pretty close to mechanics-locked at this point (meaning no drastic spell changes), but there is always room for tweaks and tuning across the board and i'm working closely with the team to figure out where any of it is necessary. If things continue as planned, i'd say i'm shooting for 3.13. 3.12 is unlikely, mostly due to the amount of time we'd need to account for bugfixing to ensure a safe patch release - but regardless of when it ships, it should be on PBE relatively soon for you guys to take a crack at.

Thanks for sticking with the thread and giving me a ton of feedback, good and bad. Can't wait for y'all to play it.
Hey Scarizard, I was thinking in the car today, but I don't think it's been asked, but is Stalk and Instant-Stealth like Kha'Zix's ultimate? It could make for some interesting plays but I'd like to hear your take.


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DontChangeRengar

Junior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Sup dudes! -Snip-
Interesting cause normally when Renekton gets ahead in lane I would get beaten on live, interesting to try out.

Please look two posts above your one for feedback to me.


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Deku Shield

Senior Member

09-04-2013

So is the final word that his E is now a skillshot, and his ultimate not only doesn't stealth anymore, but consumes his ferocity? So is triple Q impossible now? And how exactly is he supposed to position in team fights? You're just going to get blown up when they see you "ulting" toward their carry.

Sorry if I come off as rude, but who even thought these changes were necessary to begin with? He's fine as he is now. Seriously, what?

No, really, what?


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THUNDERMINE

Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Sup dudes! Got back from PAX last night and busy playing catch-up this morning. Played Rengar today and have to say i'm pretty excited. End score was 10/4/16 iirc, with the lowest deaths and 2nd highest kills on my team.
Can you please give us the actual stats he has and how it all works? That's all we want lol!

DETAILS MAN WE NEED DETAILS!