A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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dragonstrike45

Member

08-26-2013

Hey Scarizard, the current iteration of the ult looks good. It gives players options in terms of mobility vs. stalking. However, it doesn't address one critical issue in my opinion: his impact on teamfights. Yes he gives his team good vision and he can leap onto a target with full ferocity initially. However, once he leaps, he loses his ult's effect and mobility. As of now, his ult can be considered a one-time effect - once you leap, its effect is over. However, if you are going to lower his burst, and increase his prolonged dmg, why not tailor his ult to have in combat effects in addition to mobility out of combat?

My suggestion: Thrill of the Hunt: Activating Thrill of the Hunt gives Rengar (10/15/20%) movement speed for (14 or so seconds). Duration is increased by one second per ferocity consumed at the start of the ultimate. After 3s of activating Thrill of the Hunt, Rengar can use stalk. Stalk has a 3 second duration, followed by a 3s cooldown. It can be used as many times as possible during the duration of Thrill of the Hunt. Stalk: Activating stalk stealths Rengar for 3s and gives him a bonus (20/30/40%) movement speed for the duration. In addition, Rengar rapidly generates ferocity during this time and gains a vision radius of 2000/3000/4000 for the duration of stalk.

Why may this iteration of his ultimate be good?
- it retains stealth
- allows Rengar to use stalk multiple times in battle at crucial times
- his insane bonuses: ferocity regen., stealth and massive movement speed have to be managed well - prevents movement speed/true vision abuse and rather gives him small bursts of great bonuses
- solves the problem of sticking to carries/ getting a slight window to escape after diving the carry/ repositioning himself in a team fight - based on his circumstance

Note: Leaping on an enemy from stealth WILL NOT end his ult in this iteration. It merely puts stalk on a short cooldown, while still giving him the 20% bonus movement speed from Thrill of the Hunt.

Please let me know whether or not this could work/ be implemented in some form (obviously I'm not talking about numbers, but rather the core concept). Thanks!


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hoxE

Member

08-26-2013

Great idea with the 2 phase ultimate iteration.

With the movement speed becoming a topic of discussion, what if it had ramp up time, and then ramp down time if/when you hit to stealth. The numbers/times could be your throttle but it seems like it could have much more fluid gameplay for the rengar player.


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FurryKittenSoup

Senior Member

08-26-2013

How about this...

The 5 ferocity makes him phase in and out of invisiblity in intervals of like .2-.5 seconds during the sprint phase of the ult.

Long enough to make the enemy guess which direction you're going when u phade into invisiblity. But not too long for them to totally lose you.

I think this would make up for some hilarious jukes. And would also help his teamfighting.


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Zalfi

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PallasAthens View Post
So you want to make him into Master Yi.
How is that even remotely close to what I said? Because I implied Rengar would still be a good champ without stealth? I'm not rooting for the stealth to be gone, I just think it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Because I also said I liked the new implementation with letting you toggle into it. I also think that from personal experience I would rather have more MS than the stealth more often than not. I think Rengar's current stealth plays a lot more of an important role as a defensive trick than on offensive one, so I like the ability not to use it if you don't need it.


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psloan

Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I've seen this a bunch in this thread so far, but i don't see it as having the same problems due to

- Stalk having less Stealth Duration than on Live
- Stalk losing Thrill of the Hunt's movement speed
- Rengar's overall burst being lowered

In general, there's a much lower window for Rengar to Sneak-Attack you. He can also just run and leap on you if his goal is to just get to you, but if taking your opponent by surprise is important (say, in a lane-gank) that option is still available and potent. Overall it takes a lot more planning and execution to pull off the stealth-attack, but you can forgo the planning and just bumrush them (at the cost of alerting them to your presence earlier)
just wanted to say i think you guys are doing a great job communicating the changes and thought process and it think we as players really appreciate it!! now if only we could get the same type of responses on other champ *Cough Olaf Cough*

not sure if its been said yet but going along with adding a small bonus for an empowered ult have you considered a little bit extra sight radius? nothing too large just a little bit per point of ferocity
it would help him track down some of those more pesky Marksmens/mages who have alot of "get out of dodge" skills

while i like the stabby kitty route have you ever considered putting some sort of Bleed on one of his abilities maybe change the Att speed on q for it or something similar it could even stack up a few times to give him more of a brawler mentality. i always like the idea of a rengar making someone bloody with his knives then tracking them down from the smell of there blood


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Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I've seen this a bunch in this thread so far, but i don't see it as having the same problems due to

- Stalk having less Stealth Duration than on Live
- Stalk losing Thrill of the Hunt's movement speed
- Rengar's overall burst being lowered

In general, there's a much lower window for Rengar to Sneak-Attack you. He can also just run and leap on you if his goal is to just get to you, but if taking your opponent by surprise is important (say, in a lane-gank) that option is still available and potent. Overall it takes a lot more planning and execution to pull off the stealth-attack, but you can forgo the planning and just bumrush them (at the cost of alerting them to your presence earlier)
I have a suggestion! How about when Rengar ults initially, it doesn't give out that global voice thing, but only when he stealths? I don't feel as though it needs announcing that Rengar is running abnormally fast, I don't get warning from the fog of war when Singed activates his ult or when Ahri's dashing.


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Pastrami Reuben

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Is there any reason to not use Stalk? It doesn't seem like it has any drawbacks so I'm wondering if it should just auto activate at the end of Thrill of the Hunt if you don't press R a second time.


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PallasAthens

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastrami Reuben View Post
Is there any reason to not use Stalk? It doesn't seem like it has any drawbacks so I'm wondering if it should just auto activate at the end of Thrill of the Hunt if you don't press R a second time.
I believe the iteration they're working at, how it was worded, that using Stalk takes whatever time you have left and takes away X seconds.

IE lets say Thrill of the Hunt lasts 10 seconds, and you decide to activate stalk at the 5 second mark, and doing that takes away 3 seconds/half the amount of seconds, that means you have 2 seconds to use Stalk.


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Remgarr

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I have a Idea about some bonuses with using R with Ferocity, not sure how easy it'd be to balance though

At 1-4 stacks, his ult could shave .5 seconds of a cooldown per ferocity attack on your next q-w-e cooldown after attacking a target with your empowered ability. (so ulting at 4 stacks would give a 2 second cooldown deduction on all your abilities after you used them once, giving Rengar a increased damage window during engadgements.

At 5 stacks before activating, His ult consumes the stacks to get further empowered:

Thrill of the Hunt - Rengar enters the fray in a Hunting frenzy, giving all his abilities AOE damage for 5 seconds equal to % of his normal damage (whatever percentage would be balanced) Solo targets could be "focused" giving him a increased movespeed running towards that target every time he lands a ability for X seconds.

Using Q as your first empowered ability will hit all in the aoe range with it.
Using w as your first empowered ability will Heal all nearby allies in the aoe range.
Using E as your first empowered ability will root the main target and slow all nearby enemies in the aoe range of where it lands. (Think Sej ult style)

You could make the AOE radius the same as his leap distance.


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BanditManSteve

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Possible, but there are many ways to combat this. Q no longer damage towers - or, Q does hit towers but doesn't gain the 3 Ferocity or Attack Speed from towers.

Also, Hunt's MS can ramp. Stalk providing no MS and a shorter duration also means that if he stealths after you find him splitpushing, you can actually fan out and catch him when he reappears.

Not concerned about this. There are more levers than even these that can make things less terrible in a world of gigasplitpushrengar, and i'm willing to do any one of them since they don't really hit his -actual- power.
What about this:

Hunt: rengar moves really fast, generates fury yada yada
Stalk: Upon entering stalk, Rengar enters stealth and loses bonus MS from hunt. All stacks are then consumed and give bonus ms depending on how many stacks he had.

Thoughts?