A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

08-25-2013
61 of 81 Riot Posts

Brief post before i head out for the day - been reading a lot of your Ferocity bonuses for R and while i appreciate the creativity, unsure if i'm gonna take anything i see - everything so far is kind of above the powerbudget i'd like to give it - i'm heading towards 'nice, small bonus' - where things like Tenacity, a Fear, extra Damage are all things that just make me feel like an idiot for ever ulting without max ferocity. I'll continue to mull it over and let you guys know what i'm thinking.

As for Hunt -> Stalk, i've seen a lot of you mention you think it should be reverse. Aside from my poor naming (Maybe Sprint->Prowl would be more accurate?), the basic idea around this is

1. Adds a window of time where Rengar can get caught out and still be outplayed - stealthing, picking a direction you want to go, and then bursting into speed to run away is kind of @_@. Hunt->Stalk at least has a period of time where you know he cant' stealth you, and if you don't play it right may not even need to use it.

2. Taken as evidence from our tests where the ult had no stealth at all - in most cases, i think 'Hunt' is more universal. When ulting with Rengar, more often than not you want to run fast. Whether or not you're getting into position for an Ambush or just running a guy down, if your ultimate button gave you nothing else, MS is more consistent and you can form an expectation around the button press. Seeing low-health dudes and pressing R, only to know your giant MS boost is ~5s away from activation feels like they're escaping from you just because we let it happen - while giving it to you upfront and keeping the Stealth optional allows you to premeditate it for when it would be useful to you.

Maybe i didn't explain it that well - only got like 4h or so of sleep (Damn you, gamescom !_!), but i hope it makes sense. I'm still considering all of these suggestions, this is just snapshot on where i'm feelin'


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MetaEngineer

Member

08-25-2013

The hunt-> stalk combo sounds like the best iteration so far, but it will be hard to find a balance with hunt duration and stalk duration. One that retains his chasing potential but not his instagib potential. What are the timers looking like atm? (Aside from the duration increases with ferocity that are being tossed around) I assume rengar won't be able to hunt-> wait the limiting cd-> stalk-> then just gank as he does on live, passing over wards.


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Squidget

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Senior Member

08-25-2013

I guess I don't see how this version of the ultimate solves the problem with true stealth -> burst, which is horribly toxic to play against and always has been. I guess we'll see when it comes out, but I really hope you're thinking this change through.

True stealth or burst damage. You can't have both. This game does not need another pre-nerf Evelynn.


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Leonixxiii

Senior Member

08-25-2013

This might be hard to convey in game, but what if you gave Rengar a point blank bonus to his next attack after using his R/RR... A bonus that only works when used where the leap is pointless... Like "I had the leap, but "Im so badass I'm just going to walk up to you and hit you"... Harder, or with an extra effect (= to points used when R is first used), doesn't have to be extra damage.


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Cpt Mookie

Senior Member

08-25-2013

Hey Scarizard. I understand that stealth is a very low conterplay skill.

I love the idea of his ult giving him the move speed and duration and have a second activation for a 3 second stealth. The stealth wouldn't scale with rank, but the MS and amount of time do. This is something that would help with addressing other parts of his kit.


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Leonixxiii

Senior Member

08-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidget View Post
I guess I don't see how this version of the ultimate solves the problem with true stealth -> burst, which is horribly toxic to play against and always has been. I guess we'll see when it comes out, but I really hope you're thinking this change through.

True stealth or burst damage. You can't have both. This game does not need another pre-nerf Evelynn.
His new combo damage has traded a noticeable, but not huge, amount of burst damage for sustained, and this new R(RR?) doesnt have +%MS, nore last nearly as long in stealth as before (5-6secs?) making wards (more) useful than before.

At least thats what I'm taking from it... His still an assassin, just not as "peek-a-boo, I kill you" as live.


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Furi Kuri

Member

08-25-2013

Say hello to Karama Rengar.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

08-25-2013

  • Rengar gains 10% additional MS when running at a champion. Arguably boring since he's already getting so much MS, but gets the job done.
  • Rengar gains a medium-small AD bonus for the duration of ult and 3s after
  • Bonus physical onhit to throwback to the tripleq days
  • Shield? Seems too random tho
  • Next 2 autoattacks leap at the target? For hyper gapclosing shenanigans


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Enderzone

Senior Member

08-25-2013

How about a increased vision range when you ult with more Ferocity? I mean the whole seeing through fog of war thing where everyone turns red. As long as the range at no ferocity is appropriately large, that's a nice bonus that doesn't make me feel like i'm wasting that much potential.

I'm tired, Rengar still has that component in his new kit right?


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PHoToS999

Senior Member

08-25-2013

What if ferocity consumed gave him atkspd on exit? If he's just doing cleanup, then it wouldn't do much, but if he's wanting to 100-0 someone, then he might want that extra atkspd to help take someone down.

Or, what if ferocity consumed made him enter stealth faster? So max stacks consumed makes him stealth almost immediately, while no stacks makes him just go invis at the normal rate?