A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Xhez2slash

Junior Member

08-24-2013

Stalk that sounds reaaaaaaaaaally cool


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Norr1N

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Completely different ultimate idea from the existing. Nothing to do with stealth. Put away the pitchforks. More jungle-oriented with a focus on brush and jungle control, Rengar's specialty.

R - Jungle Presence

Cooldown - 150/120/90 seconds
Monster Vision Radius - 750/1100/1450


Passive

Reveals all neutral monsters within a short range. Does not reveal champions.
Active
Lookout

Rengar can activate this ability to reveal all brushes on the map (and any immediate nearby surrounding enemy units or monsters) for 8 seconds. During these 8 seconds, if Rengar is within brush, Rengar can reactivate this ability to cast Invade.

Invade

Rengar instantly becomes invulnerable for 2 seconds as he leaps deep into the bushes. After this short duration, Rengar emerges from any other brush on the map. A loud roar is heard from the destination brush the moment before his arrival. Enemies within the brush, or if enemies have vision of brush, also see a flash of glowing blue/orange eyes for half a second during the roar.
Attacking from brush reduces the cooldown of this ability by 1 second.

=============================

Ability will synergise with the new suggested BTN changes, which emphasise MS bonuses when entering/exiting brush, as well as his passive. Cooldown is lower than TF's as it is brush-specific, and not exactly global in the truest sense of the word.

Although simple, can be very versatile, enabling a number of plays e.g. -
- Better ganks on side lanes, not relying on movement speed alone to close gap
- More reliable like a Nocturne ult
- Better objective control, can be used to steal enemy buffs (instead of using it to gank a lane)
- Can be used to check brushes and get back to lane quicker if laning top
- Used to engage or escape (have to choose which wisely)
- If used with proper timing, can find a target singled out from the rest of the herd and pick them off
- Dodge a Karth ult
- Used to chase, and cut off fleeing enemies
- Passive reveals monster camps, enabling smoother jungle navigation with leaps
- Passive can also show nearby camps under attack by enemies
- Etc.


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Mobilized Boat

Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Hey dudes, sorry for going mostly silent this week - had a lot to get done and i don't like to post when i know i won't have time to follow up with y'all (this is why last week's post came on a Friday evening so i had all weekend to keep talking)

So i'm likely going to format this horrendously because i'm at home and don't have a screencap of the tooltip, but here's the new idea for Rengar's ultimate:

Thrill of the Hunt

Hunt: Rengar activates his Predatory instincts, gaining % movement speed and vision of all nearby enemy champions. During this time, Rengar also generates up to 5 Ferocity and his first basic attack will cause him to leap. Lasts (Long Duration) or until Rengar uses an ability/leaps.

After a few seconds, Rengar may choose to reactivate Thrill of the Hunt to enter Stalk.

Stalk: Rengar loses all bonus movement speed from Thrill of the Hunt, but enters Stealth. Lasts (Shorter Duration) or until Rengar takes offensive action.

If i can clarify more, let me know. The basics are that Rengar players get to choose which is best for the situation - to Speedcat for a chase or cleanup? or Stealthcat for an ambush or otherwise awesome juke? I'm excited about this version because it has a lot of flexibility in what Rengar can do throughout the game (by retaining Higher % MS than is on live via Hunt, but retaining the Stealth Ambush in Stalk) but doesn't let you just hit R and run without being smart about it.

Bonus Question!- Consuming Ferocity on cast is still something i want to do, but i'd want to find a better bonus you get for 'Empowering' your Ultimate rather than duration. Suggestions? I anticipate a lot of '+Damage and +Stealth' time, but i'm open to hearing what you guys have to say.

Let me know what you guys think, and sorry for the delay!
THIS IS SO SEXY
SCARIZARD IM SERIOUSLY SORRY I DOUBTED YOU!

However..
Have you considered reversing the Stalk and Thrill of the Hunt effects? I mean, you would start with Stealth and then choose if you want to generate ferocity. This way, you could still escape. It might be a bad idea, but it's something that could be considered.
Now that I think about it, it's probably a bad idea.


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Mobilized Boat

Member

08-24-2013

Rofl, the mood swings in this thread are hilarious.
We had one case of someone telling Scarizard to kill himself and now everyone loves him. Good work, guys.


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Mid Talon

Junior Member

08-24-2013

I like Norr1N's idea so much
"Reveals all neutral monsters within a short range. Does not reveal champions."
but how about it for a bonetooth nec stat


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Gwathnor

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Member

08-24-2013

Welp, throwing out a random idea for ferocity drain/consumption when using Stalk:

Rengar's leap out of stalk carries him and his target a set distance (think Poppy charge but without the stun or the stopping at walls). This gets the whole "surprise tackle" vibe that Rengar should have and allows him to separate key targets from their team so he can do his whole assassiny thing better.


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RadiantWings

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Senior Member

08-24-2013

Have you guys ever considered a non-snowball version of Bonetooth Necklace? What I mean is, what if the trophy collection was sort of a gating mechanism that will allow Rengar to purchase effects with gold? That way you could actually go wild with the Bonetooth Necklace abilities since now he'd be exchanging power for utility.

Bonetooth Necklace suffers right now because Rengar *has* to be balanced around it existing, and the item itself *has* to be somewhat low impact because it's both a personal AND a snowball item. Because of this you end up having games where you've farmed a maxed out Bonetooth Necklace... and then you sell it because that extra Bloodthirster is more important than any utility BN provides. What if Bonetooth was something more inherent to Rengar?

Something like:

-Rengar innately collects trophies for his Bonetooth Necklace. Every 3 trophies Rengar has collected allows him to buy a utility effect.

When you assign an individual gold cost to each effect, every effect from the Necklace can then be balanced accordingly to eachother. It also opens up a wealth of actual customization for Rengar, allowing you to actually tailor the way you play him in a way that's different from Kha'zix or Viktor's gameplay.

Example effects:
-While Rengar has Unseen predator active, he reveals the area within his sightrange (allowing him to see into brush and over cliffs.)

-If Rengar activates Savagery within .5 seconds of using Unseen predator, he briefly gains Unseen Predator again. (Yes it's doublejump. While Alistar can Headbutt->Pulverize and Lee Sin/Jax/Katarina jumping to wards is "skillful play" doublejump was labeled an abuse case. This change makes it *not* an abuse case since it's a clearly worded effect)

These effects would be downright amazing and would allow vast customization with how you play Rengar. The first effect would allow him to jump certain monster camps while the second gives you creative jumping patterns and gank paths. Far more than having two effects devoted solely to making Rengar run faster in the brush. Also, it's worded "When Rengar has Unseen Predator" in order to allow the effects to work with Thrill of the Hunt as well as the brush, since Rengar will always have Unseen Predator in the brush.

A pick and choose situation wouldn't work for his current iteration of Bonetooth because he can lose stacks, and because you'd have to have a different version of BN for every single combination of abilities, hence, the Eleisa's Miracle solution.


Clarity Edit: Rengar would still collect trophies as usual. When he reaches a multiple of 3 he can activate one effect at a gold cost.


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Norr1N

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwathnor View Post
Welp, throwing out a random idea for ferocity drain/consumption when using Stalk:

Rengar's leap out of stalk carries him and his target a set distance (think Poppy charge but without the stun or the stopping at walls). This gets the whole "surprise tackle" vibe that Rengar should have and allows him to separate key targets from their team so he can do his whole assassiny thing better.
I like this idea a lot. Could act as an interrupt if used right, with decent enough range to carry the target through a wall. Should be available on his first leap attack when Empowered, whether it be during Stalk or Hunt.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantWings View Post
Have you guys ever considered a non-snowball version of Bonetooth Necklace? What I mean is, what if the trophy collection was sort of a gating mechanism that will allow Rengar to purchase effects with gold? That way you could actually go wild with the Bonetooth Necklace abilities since now he'd be exchanging power for utility.

Bonetooth Necklace suffers right now because Rengar *has* to be balanced around it existing, and the item itself *has* to be somewhat low impact because it's both a personal AND a snowball item. Because of this you end up having games where you've farmed a maxed out Bonetooth Necklace... and then you sell it because that extra Bloodthirster is more important than any utility BN provides. What if Bonetooth was something more inherent to Rengar?

Something like:

-Rengar innately collects trophies for his Bonetooth Necklace. Every 3 trophies Rengar has collected allows him to buy a utility effect.

When you assign an individual gold cost to each effect, every effect from the Necklace can then be balanced accordingly to eachother. It also opens up a wealth of actual customization for Rengar, allowing you to actually tailor the way you play him in a way that's different from Kha'zix or Viktor's gameplay.

Example effects:
-While Rengar has Unseen predator active, he reveals the area within his sightrange (allowing him to see into brush and over cliffs.)

-If Rengar activates Savagery within .5 seconds of using Unseen predator, he briefly gains Unseen Predator again. (Yes it's doublejump. While Alistar can Headbutt->Pulverize and Lee Sin/Jax/Katarina jumping to wards is "skillful play" doublejump was labeled an abuse case. This change makes it *not* an abuse case since it's a clearly worded effect)

These effects would be downright amazing and would allow vast customization with how you play Rengar. The first effect would allow him to jump certain monster camps while the second gives you creative jumping patterns and gank paths. Far more than having two effects devoted solely to making Rengar run faster in the brush. Also, it's worded "When Rengar has Unseen Predator" in order to allow the effects to work with Thrill of the Hunt as well as the brush, since Rengar will always have Unseen Predator in the brush.
Not sure how it'd balance out, but if Rengar BOUGHT his trophies, I seriously doubt that he would still consider them trophies. He'd probably consider them trinkets.


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Ryndis

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Senior Member

08-24-2013

For the ultimate consumption on stacks you could do something like


Consumes ferocity and marks (1,2,3) targets as the strongest prey.(Base it on total gold perhaps and/or in range of the tracking portion of his ultimate) Dealing the killing blow on a marked target increases stacks on bonetooth necklace by (x) as well as reducing the cooldown of your ultimate by (y). Assists would give a reduced amount, probably 25% instead of the usual 50%.

This keeps him in line as an assassin, doesnt give him immediate 'muscle', and retains his theme as a predator hunting only the strongest. It also encourages focusing priority threats.