A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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alfavhunter

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Hey dudes, sorry for going mostly silent this week - had a lot to get done and i don't like to post when i know i won't have time to follow up with y'all (this is why last week's post came on a Friday evening so i had all weekend to keep talking)

So i'm likely going to format this horrendously because i'm at home and don't have a screencap of the tooltip, but here's the new idea for Rengar's ultimate:

Thrill of the Hunt

Hunt: Rengar activates his Predatory instincts, gaining % movement speed and vision of all nearby enemy champions. During this time, Rengar also generates up to 5 Ferocity and his first basic attack will cause him to leap. Lasts (Long Duration) or until Rengar uses an ability/leaps.

After a few seconds, Rengar may choose to reactivate Thrill of the Hunt to enter Stalk.

Stalk: Rengar loses all bonus movement speed from Thrill of the Hunt, but enters Stealth. Lasts (Shorter Duration) or until Rengar takes offensive action.

If i can clarify more, let me know. The basics are that Rengar players get to choose which is best for the situation - to Speedcat for a chase or cleanup? or Stealthcat for an ambush or otherwise awesome juke? I'm excited about this version because it has a lot of flexibility in what Rengar can do throughout the game (by retaining Higher % MS than is on live via Hunt, but retaining the Stealth Ambush in Stalk) but doesn't let you just hit R and run without being smart about it.

Bonus Question!- Consuming Ferocity on cast is still something i want to do, but i'd want to find a better bonus you get for 'Empowering' your Ultimate rather than duration. Suggestions? I anticipate a lot of '+Damage and +Stealth' time, but i'm open to hearing what you guys have to say.

Let me know what you guys think, and sorry for the delay!

answer to bonus question, as long as you make rengars base stats high enough that hes reasonably tanky i think a good bonus to his consuming ferocity would be this

gives rengar 10/20/30/40/50% (based on ferocity consumed) additional armor and magic resist for 5 seconds after thrill of the hunt ends giving him tankiness in fights to prevent his instant explosion after engaging but also requiring him to get some resistance to make more it useful


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

08-24-2013

How about if he had a Damage Reduction while Stealthed if he has 5 Ferocity when he ults? No one's ever used THAT before!


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Kakouonkei

Member

08-24-2013

For an empowered ult how about either having clones leaping on surrounding enemies when he leaps someone and then continuing to auto attack for 0 damage(think cross between wukong and leblancs clones) or a small fear AoE around his prey when he leaps on them, that affects nearby champs but not who he leaps on.(kinds seems like hec ult tho, maybe smokescreen/darkness effect instead?).

Both obv aimed at helping helping his assassin gameplay; create confusion, kill the target, leave.


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Outshine

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Hey dudes, sorry for going mostly silent this week - had a lot to get done and i don't like to post when i know i won't have time to follow up with y'all (this is why last week's post came on a Friday evening so i had all weekend to keep talking)

So i'm likely going to format this horrendously because i'm at home and don't have a screencap of the tooltip, but here's the new idea for Rengar's ultimate:

Thrill of the Hunt

Hunt: Rengar activates his Predatory instincts, gaining % movement speed and vision of all nearby enemy champions. During this time, Rengar also generates up to 5 Ferocity and his first basic attack will cause him to leap. Lasts (Long Duration) or until Rengar uses an ability/leaps.

After a few seconds, Rengar may choose to reactivate Thrill of the Hunt to enter Stalk.

Stalk: Rengar loses all bonus movement speed from Thrill of the Hunt, but enters Stealth. Lasts (Shorter Duration) or until Rengar takes offensive action.

If i can clarify more, let me know. The basics are that Rengar players get to choose which is best for the situation - to Speedcat for a chase or cleanup? or Stealthcat for an ambush or otherwise awesome juke? I'm excited about this version because it has a lot of flexibility in what Rengar can do throughout the game (by retaining Higher % MS than is on live via Hunt, but retaining the Stealth Ambush in Stalk) but doesn't let you just hit R and run without being smart about it.

Bonus Question!- Consuming Ferocity on cast is still something i want to do, but i'd want to find a better bonus you get for 'Empowering' your Ultimate rather than duration. Suggestions? I anticipate a lot of '+Damage and +Stealth' time, but i'm open to hearing what you guys have to say.

Let me know what you guys think, and sorry for the delay!
The ult sounds much better that way.
please just keep the stealth some way or another and im happy with that.


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chico3530

Junior Member

08-24-2013

Why not making that at 5 stacks of ferocity, they will be consume to give additional seconds for the Stalk? From 1 to 4 stack(s) this will only increase the Hunt part by several seconds, but at 5 stacks, both you have an increase duration. It would be also nice if we could switch between the two parts of the ultimate.


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Chaosos

Senior Member

08-24-2013

I think keeping the core of the ult the same and just making it 'do more' in terms of target selection is the smarter option.


Also, again dealing with the whole "unstoppable splitpush kitty destroys turrets and then ults out, maybe circling back for the kill" would it be smart for Rengar's ult MS bonus to build up instead of instantly be at full power? I still feel that all the changes just make super splitpush kitty REALLY powerful.


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Chaosos

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Double post, but you might want to update the first post


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SourPunch

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Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I could see myself going as low as 10%, but i've there's always been a dissonance to me of 'I'M INVISIBLE' and 'I'M RUNNING REALLY FAST' - if he ends up needing a very, very low MS then obviously i'll give it but for first pass i want to be firm about the tradeoffs he's getting.
I do not understand why there cannot be both, I can latch on to the idea of reactivating for his stealth but i don't understand giving him a trade off when hes essentially not gaining anything different. Id rather lower his overall MS for the non stealthed ult, and have a bit less for stealth MS.

Also if your testing out the new stealth option, where does that leave the other proposed changes? More/less Q DMG?, W still buffed DMG?, and E still a skill shot?


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Thiend

Junior Member

08-24-2013

I'm not completely clear about the range on his ultimate's reveal, but maybe you could make ferocity give extra range on it based on how much you have. Thematically the only thing that would fit for something called "ferocity" is bonus damage, but you have said and I agree that it would only force you to make his damage without the bonus weaker.


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

08-24-2013
58 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaosos View Post
I think keeping the core of the ult the same and just making it 'do more' in terms of target selection is the smarter option.


Also, again dealing with the whole "unstoppable splitpush kitty destroys turrets and then ults out, maybe circling back for the kill" would it be smart for Rengar's ult MS bonus to build up instead of instantly be at full power? I still feel that all the changes just make super splitpush kitty REALLY powerful.
Possible, but there are many ways to combat this. Q no longer damage towers - or, Q does hit towers but doesn't gain the 3 Ferocity or Attack Speed from towers.

Also, Hunt's MS can ramp. Stalk providing no MS and a shorter duration also means that if he stealths after you find him splitpushing, you can actually fan out and catch him when he reappears.

Not concerned about this. There are more levers than even these that can make things less terrible in a world of gigasplitpushrengar, and i'm willing to do any one of them since they don't really hit his -actual- power.