A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Mobilized Boat

Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havik223 View Post
I can't believe anyone is honestly *****ing about E being a skillshot. TONS of champions have skillshots; You don't hear people complaining that Rumble has 0 harass. Yeah Mundo's harass ability sure is useless.

For ****'s sake: EVERYTHING IS BEING BUFFED IN LIEU OF MAKING IT A SKILL SHOT! STOP. *****ING.
Piss off. Rumble's "poke" is actually not that great. His E is only good because you can spam it twice, other than that it sucks. It also doesn't do that much damage.

Rengar's E is used for getting guaranteed damage against a champion that would otherwise **** you up in a trade (Darius, Riven, Jax).

It is also used for CSing. How are you going to last hit minions if there are healthier minions in the way? E being a skillshot hurts his laning phase, period.


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Allocir

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Member

08-20-2013

Here's my opinion:

He should either have his insane front-loaded burst nerfed, or his ability to suddenly be in someone's face, but not both. I think the Q-train is an elegant solution to spreading out his damage; I don't feel the ult rework is necessary and am vehemently opposed to removing stealth, but I'm excited to see what your proposed new ult with stealth re-introduced is.

I actually like the E changes. I'm ambivalent (but hopeful) about the BT changes - will need to play it to see.

My one remaining issue is W. I think making him strong against one class of character and weak against another is a bad way to introduce strengths and weaknesses. Here are a couple of thoughts on directions W could take that may give more strength/weakness cases, without feeling like he's shoehorned into being a counterpick against only certain compositions.

-Make his W give armor and MR as before, but a much higher amount on a much shorter duration. Now it's a reactive spell, almost like a spell shield, instead of just a defense steroid.
-Make his W reduce the damage dealt to Rengar by affected targets. This allows more decision-making and counterplay: it's now important WHO you hit with the Battle Roar (it also still introduces some strengths/weaknesses in matchups, since it's inherently easier to use against melee champions). A neat addendum might be to have Empowered Battle Roar reduce ALL damage dealt to Rengar instead of/in addition to just damage dealt by affected targets, OR, to have Empowered Battle Roar reduce ALL damage dealt by affected targets, whether to Rengar or to other players. I actually really like this second option, as it makes his W a more situational and yet attractive option compared to other empowered's in a teamfight scenario.


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Ava lre

Junior Member

08-20-2013

The new kit looks fine. The change I like the most and think was most needed was the extra speed boost after the leap on his ult having an insta-flash after landing was kind of a killjoy.
Are his empowered abilities going to scale off of Rengar's level and not skill level like the heal on W on live?

"He has a really cool run animation when in his ult that makes him look really cool while booking it." Scarizard make him run on all fours like a cat then when he leaps he can leap from all fours and do a dramatic stab like from Shank. Also making him run on all fours visually clear to all the non-Rengar players that will soon be pounced on.


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Havik223

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I'd like more insight into why you feel Top Rengar suffers here?
Because BAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW I CAN'T LAND SKILLSHOTS


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Havik223

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobilized Boat View Post
Piss off. Rumble's "poke" is actually not that great. His E is only good because you can spam it twice, other than that it sucks. It also doesn't do that much damage.

Rengar's E is used for getting guaranteed damage against a champion that would otherwise **** you up in a trade (Darius, Riven, Jax).

It is also used for CSing. How are you going to last hit minions if there are healthier minions in the way? E being a skillshot hurts his laning phase, period.
You mean, Darius the guy who has the same grab range as Rengar's current E? OK, Rumble Aside, Lee Sin, Ezreal, Brand; Champs with skill shots who benefit greatly from them.

Skillshots are totally viable for harassment, especially on a champion who can gap close AT ANY TIME FOR FREE


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Mobilized Boat

Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havik223 View Post
You mean, Darius the guy who has the same grab range as Rengar's current E? OK, Rumble Aside, Lee Sin, Ezreal, Brand; Champs with skill shots who benefit greatly from them.

Skillshots are totally viable for harassment, especially on a champion who can gap close AT ANY TIME FOR FREE
What the **** did you just say?
Bola Strike RANGE: 575
Apprehend RANGE: 540

That 35 range is enough to poke and then get away.

And yeah, you're now comparing apples to oranges. This conversation isn't about ADCs as, yes, an ADC with free harass would be OP. Lee Sin is better as a jungler and Brand is hardly seen in any competitive play. He's still good because he has harass which can go through minions, which is the whole point of my argument.

I don't know why you went on about his passive. Go try to jump on a Jax, Riven or Darius. Darius will pull you once you try to run, jax will jump on you and stun you and Riven will follow you with her Q train and W you.


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Havik223

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobilized Boat View Post
What the **** did you just say?
Bola Strike RANGE: 575
Apprehend RANGE: 540

That 35 range is enough to poke and then get away.

And yeah, you're now comparing apples to oranges. This conversation isn't about ADCs as, yes, an ADC with free harass would be OP. Lee Sin is better as a jungler and Brand is hardly seen in any competitive play. He's still good because he has harass which can go through minions, which is the whole point of my argument.

I don't know why you went on about his passive. Go try to jump on a Jax, Riven or Darius. Darius will pull you once you try to run, jax will jump on you and stun you and Riven will follow you with her Q train and W you.
I'll agree that having it go through minions is useful, but more range and power is more useful.

I don't agree about Darius's pull. Sometimes it will be enough, but the time it takes Rengar to cast the spell is enough for a Darius (especially with boots) to close the gap and murder him.

Same goes for Riven. Slows barely do anything against her what with 4 dashes. I'd say the same about Jax to a lesser degree.

The benefits of having a stronger move at the sake of having a skillshot will make Rengar be able to keep distance and harass better. Especially consider he can use bushes to his advantage in lining up a shot.


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Girofalcon

Senior Member

08-20-2013

RIP rengar


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Grey Verve

Member

08-20-2013

Where'd Wav3Break go? We kept calling for Scarizard and seen no Wav3Break. Any update from his point of view?


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Mobilized Boat

Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Verve View Post
Where'd Wav3Break go? We kept calling for Scarizard and seen no Wav3Break. Any update from his point of view?
Probably because he got massively downvoted and flamed last time he tried to add to the discussion. It got personal.

People are blaming him for the whole "e being a skillshot" thing.