A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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EnvyDragon

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
You're also not a gank machine if I see you coming 20 miles away and can literally just...walk back.
Because obviously Evelynn and Twitch, as the only champions with enough stealth to bypass wards, are the only champions in the game capable of ganking.

The fact is, there are ways to avoid wards, and even if a lane is warded to kingdom come, you can just... gank elsewhere. Or take advantage of Rengar's crazy movespeed buff (50%? Am I remembering it right?) to hit the enemy from behind when they're pushed.

Another point: you're basically assuming that enemies can see you 100% of the time anyway. Bushes exist. Jungle exists. Hell, if the enemy midlaner goes to take wraiths or blue, you can basically bolt the hell over there for a free kill, while your truesight lets you know if anybody's coming to back them up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
Edit: As for being too fast to run from? That doesn't work on Quinn. It won't work on Rengar.
Quinn doesn't auto-detect enemy champions within 2000/3000/4000 range.

Quinn doesn't have any form of damage reduction, and Valor has no burst.

Rengar doesn't sacrifice his range to get his speed boost.

Rengar can very likely use his ult more than once every 140/110/80 seconds, considering that his ult's cooldown has been "significantly reduced" from the 140/105/70 it is on live.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerensky287 View Post
Because obviously Evelynn and Twitch, as the only champions with enough stealth to bypass wards, are the only champions in the game capable of ganking.

The fact is, there are ways to avoid wards, and even if a lane is warded to kingdom come, you can just... gank elsewhere. Or take advantage of Rengar's crazy movespeed buff (50%? Am I remembering it right?) to hit the enemy from behind when they're pushed.

Another point: you're basically assuming that enemies can see you 100% of the time anyway. Bushes exist. Jungle exists. Hell, if the enemy midlaner goes to take wraiths or blue, you can basically bolt the hell over there for a free kill, while your truesight lets you know if anybody's coming to back them up.

Let's assume you're right etc etc.


Why doesn't this type of fast-moving ult work on Quinn? She can kite a bruiser up top for days. Lets give her better base stats? Think her fast speed ult is any good now, she has a better gap closer than Rengar too in valor form!

She also has a better damage reduction than Rengar against ADCS because she BLINDS THEM! 0 DMG vs AD reduction or even current AR/MR boost!

No.

Super movement speed doesn't work, even with Quinns blind.

Movement speed buffs aren't good ultimates, because 1 slow, 1 stun into a slow, BOTRK and your MS is gone and useless.

And without stealth please please pleaseeeee tell me how Rengar is supposed to get kills in teamfights? You leap onto anyone and you're going to die, especially w/o Ar/MR

AT least now you can leap in the confusion and survive - the other way you are so telegraphed that the support will hug the ADC even more now.


As for a "severely" reduced CD... It won't be that much lower, otherwise you could just rush 34% cdr via visage + Brutalizer and i.e.

110 live --rework --- 80 is now 50 or so
mid around maybe 35 seconds?
max 70 live---rework 40 is now 25 or so.

Do you realy think they would allow this? Every 25 seconds rengar comes from top to gank you? Never. Never in a milion years. People would complain he is coming too often - Rengar would completely obliterate anyone without an escape - entire mid lane champion options would be completely destroyed by your logic because

A) He would be too fast to avoid
B) his cooldown would be so low that he could just do it over and over and over again without losing any CS top or from the jungle.


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RakshirX

Senior Member

08-19-2013

After reading some of the peoples comments here, this thread has me nervous.
RENGAR DOES NOT NEED A DAMAGE NERF!
FFS people, he is not OP. The only way he can instantly assassinate adc's is if he is well fed, otherwise he is pathetically underpowered. I am beginning to think this whole rework idea is a disaster we're just watching slowly unfold. He needs his stealth, and he needs his damage. He's my favorite champ, and I leaning towards this conclusion -> LEAVE HIM ALONE.


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Lunar Lightning

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Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RakshirX View Post
After reading some of the peoples comments here, this thread has me nervous.
RENGAR DOES NOT NEED A DAMAGE NERF!
FFS people, he is not OP. The only way he can instantly assassinate adc's is if he is well fed, otherwise he is pathetically underpowered. I am beginning to think this whole rework idea is a disaster we're just watching slowly unfold. He needs his stealth, and he needs his damage. He's my favorite champ, and I leaning towards this conclusion -> LEAVE HIM ALONE.
i would be fine with this i wish riot would give us a poll to vote on whether or not champs shouldget a rework and just go with the majority since its pretty obvious from the op going from + 400 upvotes to - 200 downvotes in a weeks time that people dont want this to happen


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THUNDERMINE

Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rykk888 View Post
i've seen a couple posts similar to this now, and had an idea about his ult.

What if rengar's ult gave him a an initial 3 second stealth that would refresh every time he entered a bush (maybe only 2 secs on the refreshes)? That way he would still be able to get to the backlines, disengage/re-engage, and would have some amazing juke potential in the jungle.



I like this ^^

or something crazier: How about a jump reset on a kill? Kha'zix, tristana, and katarina all have similar mechanics. Rengar could get a free jump within 3-5 seconds of a kill.
this


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Stonehuf

Junior Member

08-19-2013

I am getting the feeling this change will turn him into a weaker version of olaf since his ulti won't remove snares the extra ms is useless once someone slows you.


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NSO1

Junior Member

08-19-2013

the double casting is the problem


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aces2kj

Senior Member

08-19-2013

These changes are **** that is the general consensus but Riot dont give a fu** what we think yet asking for our feedback seriously most posts in this thread are disagreeing with the changes Riot pls


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Wezz

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Lightning View Post
i would be fine with this i wish riot would give us a poll to vote on whether or not champs shouldget a rework and just go with the majority since its pretty obvious from the op going from + 400 upvotes to - 200 downvotes in a weeks time that people dont want this to happen
To be fair, if it was like this, we would have Heimer with 6 turrets, Release xin/vayne/zyra

On the plus side, we could have old karma with #'s buffs


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Borand

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuusetsu View Post
Congrats, you have turned rengar from a burst assassin with -some- survivability in teamifghts, into a melee ADC, which are no longer viable in the game, with no defensive skills, who will dump all his gold into BTN. Karma would be proud.
Master Yi is a melee ADC and he facerolls. A core problem of Rengar is that everything is overloaded on 1 skill, period.
If you want to discuss:
A. Don't talk with baseless generalizations.
B. Be constructive and make [valid] points.

You do neither of those.