A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerensky287 View Post
Yi's ult is designed for use in combat and its duration is extended by hero kills. The speed buff and immunity to slows allows him to chase down enemies who are fleeing combat, as well as allowing him to close the gap. It's built around already being in or near a fight when you activate it; otherwise, half the advantages it provides you are wasted.

Rengar's ult is designed for use while APPROACHING combat because all of its benefits are lost the moment a fight starts. The true sight allows him to spot isolated enemies , while the movespeed buff and long duration ensure that he can make it there to take advantage of it. The ferocity buildup allows you to open with an empowered ability.

The only changes from Rengar's ult on live are 1) his stealth is gone, so he can't easily gank someone completely in the open (and why would you, since that means they're probably within range of allies/turrets?), 2) his movespeed and duration are DRASTICALLY increased, making his threat area substantially wider, and 3) the cooldown has been shortened, meaning he can basically become a gank machine post-6.
I've bolded the flaw in your argument.

True sight may allow him to see isolated enemies. But without stealth, isolated enemies also see him and thus will group up.

Not to mention at the late game teamfight phase where stealth is claimed to be the problem everyone is grouped up in any case.

You're also not a gank machine if I see you coming 20 miles away and can literally just...walk back.

1 regular ward completely negates this type of Rengar's ultimate.


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sumeet11

Member

08-19-2013

make rengar's ultimate stealth but remove his ability to jump, he can only walk up to an enemy champ and auto attack or use bola from a distance. Its a stealth feature but can can be easily countered by oracles.


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Arcane Ezreal

Member

08-19-2013

Rengar is strong without his Stealth. Also, him getting his E turned into a skillshot sounds awesome.


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Vdragoon

Member

08-19-2013

he's not strong after this nerf. you do realize they are not only removing his stealth but removing his burst damage.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-19-2013

How bout this....Instead of all this rework talk


Rengar:

Q: We reduced the AD ratio on Q to avoid Rengar instagibbing ADCs down to .75 or .80 AD ratio, we also changed it to 25/50/75/100/125 base damage.

W: To compensate we increased the base damage from 170 at lvl 5 to 240

i.e. 70/110/150/190/240

E: To compensate for the Q changes we increased the AD ratio from .70 to .85 and reduced the cooldown by 1-1.5-2? idk? seconds at all ranks.

R: No changes as this ability isn't a problem if Q doesn't have a high ratio.

With these changes we here at Riot games feel that Rengar will still have the burst that makes him an Assassin - if he chooses to be played as such - while also giving his opponents some time to react after he lands - Since you will need to now use E as part of his main damage combo.


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Lunar Lightning

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Senior Member

08-19-2013

wo stealth hes not rengar get that through your head rengar is predator, predator requires stealth, rengar requires stealth


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FurryKittenSoup

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
I've bolded the flaw in your argument.

True sight may allow him to see isolated enemies. But without stealth, isolated enemies also see him and thus will group up.

Not to mention at the late game teamfight phase where stealth is claimed to be the problem everyone is grouped up in any case.

You're also not a gank machine if I see you coming 20 miles away and can literally just...walk back.

1 regular ward completely negates this type of Rengar's ultimate.
You will see him coming. But he will be too fast to run from.


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FurryKittenSoup

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
How bout this....Instead of all this rework talk


Rengar:

Q: We reduced the AD ratio on Q to avoid Rengar instagibbing ADCs down to .75 or .80 AD ratio, we also changed it to 25/50/75/100/125 base damage.

W: To compensate we increased the base damage from 170 at lvl 5 to 240

i.e. 70/110/150/190/240

E: To compensate for the Q changes we increased the AD ratio from .70 to .85 and reduced the cooldown by 1-1.5-2? idk? seconds at all ranks.

R: No changes as this ability isn't a problem if Q doesn't have a high ratio.

With these changes we here at Riot games feel that Rengar will still have the burst that makes him an Assassin - if he chooses to be played as such - while also giving his opponents some time to react after he lands - Since you will need to now use E as part of his main damage combo.
i've always used e as part of his main damage combo.


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RYKK888

Junior Member

08-19-2013

How about during his speed-ult, he can reactivate it at any time to receive a 3 sec stealth? That way he can use it to still rocket-kitty around looking for out of position people, and probably can't stealth all the way past a well-placed ward, but can still be stealthed as he's coming into lane to gank. If the opponents in lane don't see him zooming past their ward before he stealths, that's their fault. Otherwise, if he stealths early to bypass the ward, he will be visible by the time he's trying to jump on them in lane. It also gives him just enough time to slip behind the backlines in a teamfight, but he everyone will see him approaching before he's right on them.


Also, I'm looking forward to see what Scarizard's other stealth-alternative ult is, and hope he can reveal it soon for discussion.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryKittenSoup View Post
i've always used e as part of his main damage combo.

So have I but the problem is Rengar and "triple Q" instant killing ADCS according to Scarizard n Co.

In no way do I think I'm good at balance...but honestly a re-work of this kind of magnitude with over 300 posts shows its unwarranted and rather he just needs a numbers balance.

Edit: As for being too fast to run from? That doesn't work on Quinn. It won't work on Rengar.