A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Zaresin

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Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRoseleader View Post
I didnt say that you were wrong XD i think that sucks too
i just think that we can be a little nicer to the mods and they may listen a little more :3
Nice obviously isn't working or they would finally get rid of the trash known as pedozard for raping not one champ but now two. Sorry but nice went out the window for many of us.


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BlueRoseleader

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaresin View Post
Nice obviously isn't working or they would finally get rid of the trash known as pedozard for raping not one champ but now two. Sorry but nice went out the window for many of us.

Fair enough :3


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Critkeeper

Senior Member

08-18-2013

I have a neat idea for keeping rengar feeling like a pridestalker with stealth WITHOUT allowing him to pop in and instagib people without counterplay.


When Rengar ults, he can see the draw lines for the fog of war on the enemy team. You can see where the fog of war is and so you can stay inside of it. You gain an immense amount of movement speed while inside the fog, and can leap from it as if you were inside brush. This functionality doesn't disappear on the first leap-- it lasts for the duration of the ultimate.

If you need to incorporate stealth, you can have rengar stealthed for when he is more than 900 units away from any enemy champion, and indicate that on the draw lines. In other words, he has more wiggle room for staying in the "fog of war". He can't use it to leap on people and blow them up though.

You retain lingering vision of any enemy champions you spot ( similar to clairvoyance mastery ) for X seconds for the duration of the ultimate, rather than a hard "reveal".




I'm sorry you are getting so much hate... Comes with the job though XD. I can't say I haven't hated on RIOTERs before myself, though I'm usually not vocal about it. I'm not the only one that thinks you are doing a great job; Rainbow Frogs think you are doing fantastic!

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Servantofthe99

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
This is me responding to you. My last two posts have detailed how i understand the frustration and anger about Rengar's loss of identity tied to the loss of stealth. In both of these posts, i mention that i am working to implement a version of the ultimate that retains stealth, but works together with the current implementation to give players choice of fast and ruthless, or slow and steady.

You're entitled to be mad, and as long as you're being constructive i 100% welcome it.

Why not remove his current W and and make it a stealth. you can make the duration scale. just give it stealth and movespeed (or just stealth and single leap...either or). remove the auto ferocity regen for balance. obviously keep the infrared feel to it. Give him a new ultimate that gives him the rest of the stats like movespeed or the leap combined with the ferocity regen


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRoseleader View Post
I didnt say that you were wrong XD i think that sucks too
i just think that we can be a little nicer to the mods and they may listen a little more :3
If you read a lot of my posts they get upvotes, check page 202-203 for example; typically I don't cuss out anyone...But I'm really sick of Scarizard on this rework. He has either no idea what direction to take rengar or just wants to make him a new champion entirely.

Nothing has been accomplished in this thread after 280+ pages. And I'm not saying that means nothing will come of this but the reality is its a lot of time and resources for a champion who doesn't desperately need a rework and tbh is out of Scarizard's scope - His track record is to make Karma from an overly diversified messy champion to a simplistic 1 click wonder champion. Q, Q, Q.. Ah inc gank or ganking W.. E.. Q.. Q Q. Exceedingly boring

I don't want to see Rengar become as boring as Karma. Karma 2.0 took years to come out and look at the mess it was. I don't want Rengar to be that.

I'd rather see Rengar's Q get nerfed, his W get buffed and his E get buffed to compensate than even seeing Rengar reworked in the first place. By the end of this rework I'm willing to bet Rengar will be so utterly generic it will hurt. Choices? Your ferocity won't matter by the end of this rework, every skill will be inferior to Q train continuation.

I mean in all honestly...The no-stealth ult Scarizard proposed is just combining YI and Hecarim's ults..but without the real utility of either - you can slow Rengar - and Rengar isn't fearing anyone. Its about as useless as the out of combat MS you get on Quinn's ultimate.


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Berserk Knight

Junior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRoseleader View Post
First of all, NO NO ONE SHOULD RESIGN, second of all.

I feel as though the complaints to his stealth are coming from people that have poor positioning and hate strategy and this is why.

Adc's and bots complaint seems to be that vision wards are useless, which is far from true, just be smarter about the placement.
He is made to punish poor placement in the fact that if the adc is rushing out of the fight or into the fight he gets penalized for it. To be honest ADCs always want everything they cant easily thrash, nerfed and this is another case of that. Rengar stealth is the ONLY stealth ult in the game it makes his ultimate fun and unique and honestly not overpowered, if they did nothing to his ult it would be fine, all i wanted was just a little more health.

Rengar is High Risk, High Reward why make it so he is high risk low reward? without his stealth he gets taken out to easily and if you turn him into a tanky bruiser jungler he is just like sejuani and hecarim and so many others but without the unique concept, just get volibear better champ for that in general.
Remember Garen?
No dash/instant gap closers...
Only melee and point-blank range skills.
The only speed boost also being the only source of CC, and it's only a silence.
Relies on a skill (Courage) to bolster his defenses because Riot DESIGNED his stats with the pre-nerf Courage in mind, which resulted in his lvl 18 base armor value being lower than Twitch.

...They nerfed his Courage so Garen is now FORCED to take a lot of armor just so he won't be one-shot out of existence with his 67.6 base armor at level 18.
They also nerfed his sustain, when all he can do is wait until the enemy makes a mistake and overextends themselves, all the while withstanding the opponent's harass by using his sustain to regenerate.

Garen's problems were "getting next to the enemy alive" which is common for bruisers.
The thing is, bruisers are SUPPOSED to be extremely strong when they are allowed to get within striking distance. That's their sweetspot.

"Garen's too strong" would come from people who basically LET him come right up to them into Garen's sweetspot where he's supposed to be strong.
...Guess what? He got nerfed because of it.

This is what Riot's catering to these days.
In other words, "the other team has a stealth capable champion but we aren't going to use Oracles or Vision Wards" type of playerbase is what they're catering to.


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chickenizgoodz

Senior Member

08-18-2013

I wish they didn't remove the stealth on Rengar, but if they follow through with these changes, I hope they offer refunds for Rengar. Its annoying that you spend months grinding IP or buying RP to buy a champ that feels like the Predator and now they make him...basically a feline master yi. Its like ordering a $20 steak and getting a hot dog, and getting charged for the $20 steak


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Grimwohl

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRoseleader View Post
the problem is once hes finished, when would it be fixed if it didnt work? it could be a very very VERY long time if we are lucky, if we aren't lucky then he stays possibly broken (In a bad way) forever
Im talkin about PBE, not live. It wont ge past there if the feedback stays the same, and we'll still have current rengar on live.


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BlueRoseleader

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
If you read a lot of my posts they get upvotes, check page 202-203 for example; typically I don't cuss out anyone...But I'm really sick of Scarizard on this rework. He has either no idea what direction to take rengar or just wants to make him a new champion entirely.

Nothing has been accomplished in this thread after 280+ pages. And I'm not saying that means nothing will come of this but the reality is its a lot of time and resources for a champion who doesn't desperately need a rework and tbh is out of Scarizard's scope - His track record is to make Karma from an overly diversified messy champion to a simplistic 1 click wonder champion. Q, Q, Q.. Ah inc gank or ganking W.. E.. Q.. Q Q. Exceedingly boring

I don't want to see Rengar become as boring as Karma. Karma 2.0 took years to come out and look at the mess it was. I don't want Rengar to be that.

I'd rather see Rengar's Q get nerfed, his W get buffed and his E get buffed to compensate than even seeing Rengar reworked in the first place. By the end of this rework I'm willing to bet Rengar will be so utterly generic it will hurt. Choices? Your ferocity won't matter by the end of this rework, every skill will be inferior to Q train continuation.

I mean in all honestly...The no-stealth ult Scarizard proposed is just combining YI and Hecarim's ults..but without the real utility of either - you can slow Rengar - and Rengar isn't fearing anyone. Its about as useless as the out of combat MS you get on Quinn's ultimate.
i know exactly what ya mean,


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Arkara73

Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyu View Post
what if when you use Rengar's ult with any levels in ferocity you gain X/2 (that is half x) seconds of stealth? Where X is the levels of Ferocity consumed by Rengar's ult?

This would mean that you could still have some stealth with Rengar but it would be conditional, requires an additional cost (in ferocity), and be quite limited duration (so that Rengar couldn't go in assassinate and get a free out with his ult).

I think it would allow Rengar to further exploit moments of opportunity, retain his pridestalker theme, while still allowing for reasonable counter-play (since at most it would only be 2.5 seconds of stealth which shouldn't be enough for Rengar to engage and get out again safely - and you should be able to judge how much stealth Rengar should have by the levels of Ferocity he has).

What do people think?

You sir, are a genius