A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Malevolence View Post
My favorite champion isn't trash design, though.
Find it distasteful all you like, it's true. Rengar needs heavy work.... Quite frankly, be glad they aren't fixing more. This is light compared to what's actually necessary.

What do you know about balance? Or abuse of skills or champions in a ranked setting? You have less than 20 ranked games, top it off you're in a low ELO where they cry about Master Yi OP or Blitzcrank Op, get some cc and dodge a pull geez.

You can't even say you know about your own ELOs strengths or its weaknesses.

I bet you haven't seen a Rengar ever in your 20 games of ranked.

OH NO NORMAL GAMES RENGAR OP!!!! Balance league around normals PLSSSSS.

Do you know where Rengar is a "problem"? Its in Plat, Diamond and Challenger...and its only when he is counterpicked never first picked. If you FP Rengar in these ELOs I promise you someone will pick pantheon or Jax and proceed to demolish you in lane.
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Ok now lets assume you have a valid opinion - Ferocity is a bad design.

What makes it bad?
Its an opportunity cost design. Does that mean Renekton's fury design is bad? Really? Making choices is bad?

Or is it bad because it makes his other abilities have to be weaker? Well geez Vlad must be a terrible hero because his ult amps his ability damage, this must mean w/o his ultimate his regular abilities are terrible!

Hopefully you can see the flaw in whatever argument you were trying to make with "ferocity is bad design". If not? Oh well, you aren't in a position in any case to speak about balance or design at all. You haven't played this game to know, its just that simple.


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PhoenixSlayer13

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardinger View Post
That's a very good point.


New rework idea: Rengar is a lion. He can't speak, he walks on all fours, and has no braids or knives. Also, he doesn't have an E anymore because what lions use bolas?
Then you have Nidalee's cougar form with nothing else. I never said to go that far.


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TheUrgottenOne

Senior Member

08-17-2013

i love how people in so many threads are saying rengar is op because he can stop adcs, its like every rengar thread i go on there is someone whinning. " OMG RENGAR CANT BE INSTAPWN BY MY VEYRN OR MY CERTLYRN HE SO OP NERFNERFNERF LIKE URGOT AND TANKS AND EVERY OTHER THING ADCS CANT INSTAGIB"

just found it funny is all not pertaining to current conversations


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Fae Sorceres

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Thanks for continuing to post - you're all very passionate about the changes, and i am never someone to turn down feedback, even for those of you who don't care for me or where i've taken it so far. I'm listening. I hope the next time i have an update it will be something that most of you can agree with!
That's why Karma turned out so great, right? Please stop.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Rengar NA View Post
That's why Karma turned out so great, right? Please stop.
She's picked more than she was, she's used competitively, people don't mock her anymore. Please stop.


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TheUrgottenOne

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
She's picked more than she was, she's used competitively, people don't mock her anymore. Please stop.
sadly i never got to play the old karma but i kinda like this new karma so i dont see a problem, it still fits with her champ

Edit: i just noticed im not a junior member anymore whoot


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RadiantWings

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Senior Member

08-17-2013

This really isn't going to work out that well.

1)Bonetooth changes:
Why? Why would you make it into a jungle item? Not only have the nerfed stats pidgeonholed this item into a jungle-only item for Rengar, but it's now a MANDATORY BUY on jungle Rengar. You're taking away from Rengar's build diversity this way.

Also, the effects are pretty lackluster. This is because Bonetooth will always be a freaking snowball item in its current incarnation. You're taking away stealth when hard snowballing is also a terrible mechanic?

2)Stealth
Why would you need to remove stealth if you've ALREADY put plans in to tone down his burst damage? If he reaches targets now, they'd better explode at speed comparable to Zed or have his damage scale as well as an AD carry like Master Yi because with these changes, that's all he'll have going for him.

3)His ultimate in general
First of all you drastically overestimate 20/25/30% movespeed. Half the time if you activate it where an enemy can see you, they can also wait out the ultimate by moving in a straight line directly away. 30/40/50% isn't much better after removing stealth. Yi only gets away with it because of an on-demand jump that resets very quickly, and because you can't slow him.

4)Bola skillshot
Two gigantic problems with Bola skillshot.
1: Being able to Bola while gaining Ferocity allows him charge up Empowered Roar at zero risk.
2: Not being able to reliably generate Ferocity because of missing Bola screws up Rengar's Ferocity gain. This will cause a lot of frustration over the previous version.

Something has to change.


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xethik

Senior Member

08-17-2013

I'm a bit iffy on the stealth changes, as are most people, but I'm glad Rengar now has a reason to care about bushes while ulting. I would have liked to see stealth + a bonus while in bushes, but I suppose this is close enough.

One thing I am quite worried about is Rengar's teamfighting. I see two ways of this working for a Rengar focusing on killing carries.

1) Rengar pops ult before the fight and maneuvers into a flanking position on the carry. He leaps onto him. If the carry has an escape ability, he will likely get away from Rengar and be able to kite unless a bush allows for a leap. If he doesn't, he will likely duel out with Rengar unless someone peels Rengar off/CCs him.

2) Rengar uses bushes to get to the carry. He can then pop his ult mid fight to get to the carry. However, because Thrill of the Hunt now consumes Ferocity and Rengar won't utilize this duration at all, he's putting himself into a bad position to just get a leap off.

With much lower burst, Rengar won't be able to "blow up" the carry before peels/escape come in. Intended change. But Rengar is severely limited as an assassin now, especially because Thrill of the Hunt can't even be used to reengage well. I'd like to see something more added to Thrill of the Hunt to make it more viable mid-fight if it is going to consume ferocity rather than being hurt if the carry escapes when you are at 4 Ferocity and you really need to use it.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
She's picked more than she was, she's used competitively, people don't mock her anymore. Please stop.
Really?

Who doesn't mock her pls?

Commentators mocked her jungle in her EU debut - Out of the 5(I believe) times she was played in the EU games she lost 4, won 1. Won that one game too I remember because her team was fed, not because of her plays.

Second...EVERY SINGLE KARMA MAIN/PLAYER finds karma's new design to be BORING AND TASTELESS.

Q SPAM ALL DAY. W USELESS AND BORING

E UTILITY AND BORING.

Karma is a Q bot, that's all now.

I guess its OK if Rengar becomes a Q train bot too right? Lets remove all champion diversity! YAY!


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inplane

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRoseleader View Post
sadly i never got to play the old karma but i kinda like this new karma so i dont see a problem, it still fits with her champ

Edit: i just noticed im not a junior member anymore whoot
if you played the Old Karma you will just throw New Karma to the side as if she was just a piece of garbage