A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Mango027

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Looks like we have another Garen, Darius, Renekton on our hands.
<sarcasm>Glad we remove all the fun and unique champs from the game.</sarcasm>


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Barzany

Junior Member

08-16-2013

Riot as you can see by the forums, everyone hates what you are doing. If you intend to balance the game by disgusting people, by all means go ahead. You put your company at risk. This is my favourite game, and my favourite champion. Dont take this away from us.


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RYKK888

Junior Member

08-16-2013

Current stealth skills in game:
Evelynn: PASSIVE perma out of combat stealth, revealed when she gets close
Twitch: SKILL long stealth with knock back fade in time, totally capable of obliterating an entire enemy team if lined up well and well fed
Talon: SKILL short duration instant stealth that also deals aoe damage +move speed
Shaco: SKILL short duration instant stealth +teleport
Vayne: part of ULT multiple use super-short duration stealth, disrupter
Kha-zix: ULT multiple use super-short duration stealth with damage reduction and Unseen threat extra damage
Alkali: limited area near-instant stealth, can restealth 0.5 seconds after attacking

Old Rengar: ULT long stealth with knock back fade in time +movespeed and try vision

As long as Rengar can no longer instantly kill enemy champs from stealth, which it sounds like they fixed with the whole q-chain idea, I don't see a problem with him keeping stealth. It is such an integral part of his character and I'd much rather have some form of stealth left than a super-long move speed boost that doesn't even help do more damage. Maybe some compromise can be reached that is more along lines of where the ult is currently going, but Rengar NEEDS to keep some form of stealth to really remain Rengar.


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Dementation

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by inplane View Post
No Riot STOP THIS NOW!

I don't want another fav champ be butchered by your "remaking" just leave him the way he is!

This is just atrocious. You're nerfing him when hes already hard enough to use!
They're going to go through it anyway. Riot loves killing champions specifically unique champions. Rengar is going to be a bruiser now and now can no longer burst down ADCs, thus giving ADCs more safety.


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Exrotes

Junior Member

08-16-2013

Although it's probably been said and a bit too late to get a response.

In regards to Rengar's w I always saw as far as damage reduction goes that it's a big roar so everyone around him is intimidated by it beyond the people who take the damage. Although I'd probably get flak for an opinion like this it would be nice to see a bit lower aoe on the damage portion (maybe down like 50) but a second larger aoe for the damage reduction.


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Barzany

Junior Member

08-16-2013

Wtf is the point of another bruiser Riot? Rengar is special. Any good rengar player knows how diverse his mechanics are, and how he is not as braindead as khazix as an example. Why take away what makes rengar, RENGAR, and then expect the community to be happy about it. As others have said, with your previous works on karma and trundle, how much has that REALLY helped with their usage? You want to take away what we love and then make it useless? Thanks. Truly. If there was only something we could do.


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Foochy

Senior Member

08-16-2013

so its okay for twitch and vayne to be able to go invisible and rape an entire team but its unfun when rengar can actually counter that? whoever came up with these changes needs to have their brain lackered. Im sick of the ADC babying in this game.


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Toru Itai

Senior Member

08-16-2013

riot, just scrap all your work, leave him as he is and forget about this whole "rework" idea.. it's just nonsense.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
snip

I respect you as a person for taking the time to post all of this; but like Karma you are going to butcher Rengar. You and the rest of the design team can praise her as being played competitively now (Particularly by a team that subsequently went 0-3 (GMB) and who have stopped using her since!) Any team that won with Karma won because of the rest of the team; not her contribution. Karma is a walking Q bag with no diversity, no options and again no "OH WOW DAMN" ability. Still low pick rate and Karma players are STILL saying she is not fun/not interesting at all.

1) Bonetooth necklace is now garbage. 28 AD, useless buffs to abilities that will be tweaked obviously as they are now - to require getting bonetooth or feel lackluster. I'm sorry currently if I don't get bonetooth my leap feels garbage.

2) No stealth on Rengar? So, I just randomly leap at you now? You gave him a -once a team fight gap closer- that IS his ultimate? Where do you think Rengar will be played now? Certainly not competitively - ever - he will literally be too obvious now.

3) No MR/AR on battle roar? Again you've ruined any chance of Rengar being a jungler tank - S3 meta as is he wasn't doing well now he is dead and gone with these roar changes. Trading AR/MR bonus for AD reduction is **** sure I can jungle clear easier (Who cares I can jungle any champion in the game its about how you SCALE/FARE OUT OF the jungle) ALSO; trundle can attest to AD reduction being a **** utility skill. Don't think so? What about Tryndamere's AD reduction skill? Its a load of nonsense! Tryn beats an ADC 1v1 because of huge crits and his ultimate; not and never because of an AD reduction. Massive nerf that will crush Rengar's viability as an assassin and in the top lane especially.

Your "base stat possible buff" is a load of nonsense. Marksmen (ADCS) have near close stats (except for MR) to Bruisers; Hell announcers make it pretty clear quite often that Draven has bruiser stats. Having a 30/40/50/60 AD reduction - which won't be what youre giving Rengar; still wouldn't make him hurt ADCs - they will escape - you will have wasted your ult to get to them and probably miss bola on another target now in the confusion.


4) Increasing my MS during my ult to reach top to bottom with no boots etc is trash. Its a trash on Quinn and it will be trash on Rengar. I don't need movement speed, I need surprise. I need power. You have also effectively turned Rengar into a forced jungler with this change as I can no longer trick someone up top to stay and gut them while stealthed. Nor can I really gank from top-mid lane as I will simply be seen by the mid laner who will flash away! or walk away as they warded the bush!


Look at this thread, look at the posts, you have + 21 upvotes on your first Red post in a Rengar thread...in GD, a place filled with comments and where useless threads get more upvotes than this one with 52 Red posts.

You can SAY people like your ideas; but they won't release day. Its sad to say but this is a butchery of Rengar to the point where he is now -maybe?- a generic bruiser. Actually, he sounds like a worse form of Tryndamere (yes I know its not good to compare kits but I don't see a situation where I would want Rengar over Tryn - maybe for map control via Rengar's ulted MS....but then when a teamfight occurs Tryn sounds better).

- Rengar

- No hard CC
- 1 Ultimate gap closer
- AD reduction
- Q train
- fast MS (But low base MS to compensate for the high ult obviously you will do this, typical balancing attitude)
- Long range slow that can be blocked by minions? (Idk yet?...) But still will not do significant damage to have an impact.

VS.

Tryndamere

- No hard CC
- Has an easier to use slow - the enemy has to be running away!
- Easier to use AD reduction
- Similar trade off - heal instead of damage - heal instead of Q train for Rengar
- Crits to burst MUCH harder than Q train I GUARANTEE that.
- Gap closes just the same; albeit a bit slower traded with the fact that he can reduce its CD.
- Ultimate that makes him damage immune in case of screw ups/in order to survive even better.

Why would I pick Rengar over Tryn? Rengar is now just as CC prone - more so because his leap is telegraphed and he has less AR/MR. Rengar doesn't have any burst compared to a Tryn crit either, and his slow is inferior - targets one person. His heal is also inferior because unlike Tryn's he can't spam it!

Please please tell me; what is to stop this new Rengar from simply being CCed and blown up even more so than Tryndamere is right now? Rengar no longer has the stealth, burst damage or AR/MR to survive CC.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-16-2013

I hope Scarizard you take the time to read my post and consider it; I know it very very typical for Riot members to shy away from posts that essentially call them out so bluntly to the point of being perceived as rude.



Edit: double post my mistake.

I respect you as a person for taking the time to post all of this; but like Karma you are going to butcher Rengar. You and the rest of the design team can praise her as being played competitively now (Particularly by a team that subsequently went 0-3 (GMB) and who have stopped using her since!) Any team that won with Karma won because of the rest of the team; not her contribution. Karma is a walking Q bag with no diversity, no options and again no "OH WOW DAMN" ability. Still low pick rate and Karma players are STILL saying she is not fun/not interesting at all.

1) Bonetooth necklace is now garbage. 28 AD, useless buffs to abilities that will be tweaked obviously as they are now - to require getting bonetooth or feel lackluster. I'm sorry currently if I don't get bonetooth my leap feels garbage.

2) No stealth on Rengar? So, I just randomly leap at you now? You gave him a -once a team fight gap closer- that IS his ultimate? Where do you think Rengar will be played now? Certainly not competitively - ever - he will literally be too obvious now.

3) No MR/AR on battle roar? Again you've ruined any chance of Rengar being a jungler tank - S3 meta as is he wasn't doing well now he is dead and gone with these roar changes. Trading AR/MR bonus for AD reduction is **** sure I can jungle clear easier (Who cares I can jungle any champion in the game its about how you SCALE/FARE OUT OF the jungle) ALSO; trundle can attest to AD reduction being a **** utility skill. Don't think so? What about Tryndamere's AD reduction skill? Its a load of nonsense! Tryn beats an ADC 1v1 because of huge crits and his ultimate; not and never because of an AD reduction. Massive nerf that will crush Rengar's viability as an assassin and in the top lane especially.

Your "base stat possible buff" is a load of nonsense. Marksmen (ADCS) have near close stats (except for MR) to Bruisers; Hell announcers make it pretty clear quite often that Draven has bruiser stats. Having a 30/40/50/60 AD reduction - which won't be what youre giving Rengar; still wouldn't make him hurt ADCs - they will escape - you will have wasted your ult to get to them and probably miss bola on another target now in the confusion.


4) Increasing my MS during my ult to reach top to bottom with no boots etc is trash. Its a trash on Quinn and it will be trash on Rengar. I don't need movement speed, I need surprise. I need power. You have also effectively turned Rengar into a forced jungler with this change as I can no longer trick someone up top to stay and gut them while stealthed. Nor can I really gank from top-mid lane as I will simply be seen by the mid laner who will flash away! or walk away as they warded the bush!


Look at this thread, look at the posts, you have + 21 upvotes on your first Red post in a Rengar thread...in GD, a place filled with comments and where useless threads get more upvotes than this one with 52 Red posts.

You can SAY people like your ideas; but they won't release day. Its sad to say but this is a butchery of Rengar to the point where he is now -maybe?- a generic bruiser. Actually, he sounds like a worse form of Tryndamere (yes I know its not good to compare kits but I don't see a situation where I would want Rengar over Tryn - maybe for map control via Rengar's ulted MS....but then when a teamfight occurs Tryn sounds better).

- Rengar

- No hard CC
- 1 Ultimate gap closer
- AD reduction
- Q train
- fast MS (But low base MS to compensate for the high ult obviously you will do this, typical balancing attitude)
- Long range slow that can be blocked by minions? (Idk yet?...) But still will not do significant damage to have an impact.

VS.

Tryndamere

- No hard CC
- Has an easier to use slow - the enemy has to be running away!
- Easier to use AD reduction
- Similar trade off - heal instead of damage - heal instead of Q train for Rengar
- Crits to burst MUCH harder than Q train I GUARANTEE that.
- Gap closes just the same; albeit a bit slower traded with the fact that he can reduce its CD.
- Ultimate that makes him damage immune in case of screw ups/in order to survive even better.

Why would I pick Rengar over Tryn? Rengar is now just as CC prone - more so because his leap is telegraphed and he has less AR/MR. Rengar doesn't have any burst compared to a Tryn crit either, and his slow is inferior - targets one person. His heal is also inferior because unlike Tryn's he can't spam it!

Please please tell me; what is to stop this new Rengar from simply being CCed and blown up even more so than Tryndamere is right now? Rengar no longer has the stealth, burst damage or AR/MR to survive CC