A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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ScubaDivingPoop

Senior Member

07-31-2013

10% movespeed increase at level 1 for his ultimate seems a bit dumb. Early game is what makes or breaks rengar and with the notification of him using his ultimate it'll be dam near impossible to catch anyone unless you rush mobo boots. This seems to be a target nerf to his early game since all his Ferocity skills scale according to his level and now with the hit to his level 1 ultimate.....

Even with a level 3 ultimate on live(30%) it never felt like he got much speed increase from it, and when you said you were going to buff the duration and speed with the rework i wasn't expecting it to only be for his level 3 ultimate(50%). Kinda disappointed.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

07-31-2013

I'm a huge Rengar fan, but I can't say I'm too thrilled right now. I'm okay with the leap changes, the Ferocity changes and even the ultimate change. You've made it very clear that you're nerfing Rengar's burst damage significantly because you don't want him to kill rapidly. If Rengar doesn't have burst damage anymore, he literally has no point in existing, really. It's an assassin's JOB to burst, and Rengar's burst isn't unreasonably high. If you need to tone it down, so be it, you did add to his kit in many ways. However, it'd be a PROFOUND disappointment to MOST Rengar fans if you take away his assassin identity (And by extension, a good portion of his hunter theme). Hunters ARE assassins. I'v said it before, but hunters ambush their prey, not beat them over the head 30,000 times until they collapse from exhaustion.


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Fishywtf

Member

07-31-2013

Well if Xelnath says he loves it, lets take his word for it as he does play the kitty cat quite a bit. In Xelnath I trust


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Troy242621

Senior Member

07-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishywtf View Post
Well if Xelnath says he loves it, lets take his word for it as he does play the kitty cat quite a bit. In Xelnath I trust
I was on board with everything until I heard about weakened burst. I'd rest comfortably as soon as they confirm he's still an assassin, and not some pseudo bruiser.


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2xOninja

Junior Member

08-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
If you guys have any thoughts on what epic thing Rengar should get at maximum stacks toss'em out! I look forward to the ideas you guys will give me and Scarizard!
I got on the Rengar train a bit late late, well after the nurfs. I love the idea of the character- a badass brush leaping, face melting, cantankerous kitty cat that strikes fear into the hearts of his lane opponent and the enemy team. After saving up for weeks without doing much reading on him (was ~summer level 15, what's a MOBAFIRE? Team Solo huh?) I soon realized that he took seemingly infinitely more skill to play well then I had at that point. I'm in silver now and I've gone back to him a few times with better results, but I sill find him irritatingly cheesy and in need of a rework. I mostly play League for fun and I like playing champs who's mechanics I find fun to use, not because they are "OP"; I love winning but that's not why I play. I want Rengar to be a fun champ to play without being toxic, gimmicky, or an insta-ban in draft.
One of the most fun things about Rengar is leaping on ****. It's just freaking awesome. Every time. Weather you're last hitting creeps or melting that wounded ADC who's recalling- it's always a blast. I've also always felt that Rengar's complete invisibility durign his ult is at odds with his lore; he does not possess any magical powers, forces of the void, or stealth technology; so it's kinda odd that he can completely vanish while standing in completely open terrain. That said I like that he does have stealth aspects and hunting down your prey while staying unseen is the core of his character. That's where I'm coming from with this idea.

Changes to his ult and passive:

Passive- Rengar can leap out of brush onto targetable enemies as usual and from brush to brush with a small cooldown, he can be seen leaping. If Rengar leaps to a brush without vision and lands on an enemy it will count as a targeted leap and not proc the cooldown (so a smart player can predict an enemy's movements while blind and be rewarded for it).

Ult- Remove invisibility. When triggered Thrill of the Hunt will spawn patches of a special kind of brush in the area of the map he is in, this brush only affects Rengar's visibility and enemies in the brush with him will be able to see him. While his ult is active Rengar will be able to leap from brush to brush without cooldown and without being seen in air, as Rengar moves more brush will spawn in the area of the map he is moving towards (thereby notifying enemies of his presence- and their impending doom).

Reworking Ren's item. It's basically a snowball item as is and could use some spiceing up. We all know that that lane Rengar has his brush. You know, that one brush right where he's frozen the lane, the one he's always melting your face from... Let's make it cool.

Bonetooth Necklace idea- Active: Den - Rengar establishes a den in one brush on the map where he mounts his trophies, Rengar may leap to his den from open ground but receives an increased cooldown on his passive. Bonetooth necklace collects stacks of CS and neutral monsters kills as well as champ kills/assists, upon returning to his den Rengar can reactivate Bonetooth Necklace to deposit stacks of CS into the den granting additional benefits. The den is vulnerable to enemy attack and can be destroyed completely if sieged long enough (long enough so that rebaseing will not be a serious threat, an opponent may choose to attack the den, but it should be time consuming enough to result in an unfavorable loss of CS) the den will be more resilient for each level of buff reached, the den is destroyed buff level by buff level. Rengar my activate bonetooth necklace in another brush to change the location of his den while reducing the number of stacks (maybe Rengar has to revisit his previous den site to collect the trophies before transferring them). Seeing ever increasing piles of bones and skulls around the den would be awesome. I'd love an special interaction where you could get teemo's head on a pike outside your den if you kill him enough... We can dream, right?

These are just general kit ideas and are clearly in need of balance, supplementation, adjustment, etc. Aspects I haven't mentioned are assumed to be the same or modified for balance. I have not put too much thought into this, it's just an idea that popped into my head about an hour ago after reading wav3's post

TL;DR this Penny Arcade strip.


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Seigi

Junior Member

08-01-2013

don't you dare touch him riot. I own with rengar and sometimes don't. Same with every other champion. Nuff said.


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Arakned

Member

08-01-2013

I don't know if this has already been suggested, but you could give bonetooth an ability where you move faster if you're approaching an enemy chapion, like Volibear's run.


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

08-01-2013

Change W to this

Hunters roar

Rengar roars dealing X damage revealing all effected targets for 5 seconds and causing rengar to gain 5/10/15/20/25% life steal for 5 seconds

Empowered causes rengar to gain an extra 10 +3% per level life steal for the duration and get double benefit from life steal on non champions


In a way this gives the same benefit of survival but by sustain instead of a flat defensive bonus


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

08-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfavhunter View Post
Change W to this

Hunters roar

Rengar roars dealing X damage revealing all effected targets for 5 seconds and causing rengar to gain 5/10/15/20/25% life steal for 5 seconds

Empowered causes rengar to gain an extra 10 +3% per level life steal for the duration and get double benefit from life steal on non champions


In a way this gives the same benefit of survival but by sustain instead of a flat defensive bonus
I do like the idea of Lifesteal steroid. But for 5 seconds... ugh meh. They would have to change the ability to radically to push Lifesteal in there.


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Norr1N

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
3 Stacks - Rengar gains 15% movement speed while in brush(bonus does not persist outside of brush like Nidalee's)
I don't get why you removed the existing persistant movespeed bonus and made it brush only, as most of the time when in brush Rengar would be leaping back and forth. The movespeed would be more useful when he doesn't have access to brush/his leap.

As for his existing abilities, only major changes I would suggest would be to restore rank-based % heal amount on W (but keep the removal of AP ratios, allowing the heal to scale directly with his health and not a fixed amount but not become too ridiculous through AP scaling as in the past). Also his Bola Strike needs a slight increase in range from 575 to 600-675, with the Empowered root duration increased from 1 second to the full 2.5 seconds, or alternately made into a stun. His Ult is fine as it is, maybe a buff to the movespeed %. The Ult warning, unless it is global (and even then), sounds like a bad idea imo.

Potential New BTN bonuses -

3 Trophies - When taking damage, Rengar gains 15% movespeed which decays over 2 seconds (refreshes)

Akin to an anti-Furor Enchantment, to help prevent kiting when taking damage out in the open, or when ganked (if laning) during the early stages of the game.

6 Trophies - Obtaining max Ferocity stacks unlocks an Empowered leap, which gives Rengar a free leap with 150 increased range and does not decay, regardless of whether in brush or not, until used.

So Rengar can actually engage in smaller skirmishes without his Ult when having full stacks, and when either zoned out or away from brush. This type of leap is available only once per max stacks (leap range indicator different color to indicate this leap is available), and like Ult, leaps onto the next enemy unit right-clicked whilst consuming this type of leap till next round of fully stacked Ferocity. Note: This does not consume the 5 stacks of Ferocity, it is an additional self-buff which enables the use of Rengar's passive. Normal brush leaps continue to have 600 range and decay after 0.5s of leaving brush.

9 Trophies - Killing an enemy champion gives Rengar 1 bonus Ferocity

This is if the new reworked abilities do not refund Ferocity points themselves. If they do, an alternative bonus would be...

||9 Trophies - Killing an enemy champion grants Rengar instant temporary invisibility for up to 2.5 seconds.

Enables Rengar to reposition himself after a kill, as his only gap-closer/escape is typically used to engage, and his Ult has an up to 3 second delayed activation.

14 Trophies - Rengar gains true sight vision of enemy champions, minions and neutral monsters within 1250 range (still gains improved 2000-4000 vision when using Ult)

Can be useful for jumping to hidden jungle camps from brush/fully stacked leap, and basically establishes the jungle as Rengar's territory having mastery over/conquered the surrounding area. Think Warwick's E, but significantly shorter range and no movespeed buff.

What do you guys think?

Edit 1: Added alternative 6 Trophy bonus.
Edit 2: Swapped 6 Trophy and 9 Trophy bonuses around to reflect usefulness during appropriate stages of the game.