A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xore

Recruiter

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by emTmyclipin2u View Post
TF's active is global, and reveals for ten seconds at max rank. Just saying.

Also what lane were you ganking/ what character? I could see in top having enough movement speed to catch someone, but Tristana can jump to her tower with ease. As can ezreal, corki and shaco. Janna could see the icon and ult without any vision. What is the point of stealth if everyone knows where you are?why not give him 100% increased movement speed and be able to jump? Why not just make him untargetable? unless the icon is either so large a range that multiple lanes get it, or so small one that he isn't revealed to be there until he is literally on top of you, you ruined the point of a stealth in the first place.

Yeah, it seems like you believe they well notice you while you coming from the river or something, just like WW's E, no, i believe they are trying to say the warning icon well appear just from few steps by being attack from rengar. IN OTHER WORD THIS WARNIG WON'T GIVE THEM TIME TO RUN JUST TO REACT OF AN INCOMING WILD RENGAR.

that is what i believe they are trying to say.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

chickenizgoodz

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Honestly, Riot you should ask Ninfang, Only Rengar, and other Diamond 1 Rengar mains what should be changed. Those players know more about Rengar than anyone who plays or game tested the champion. That way there is less of a chance of "olafing" rengar or turning rengar into the new karma (completely 2 different champs)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IonDragonX

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I consider Battle Roar WIP and plan to nix the mechanic if anything else arises that makes more sense, especially if it can align with what the community wants from the ability. Generally against Tenacity/Cleanse, would rather have it be conditional based on the champion/number of champions hit. CC is probably not going to happen. Self-empowering beastman yell or demoralizing shout type things are what i'm lookin' at, tho.
How about this idea :

You know how Nunu gets a small buff for 2 - 4 minutes when he consumes a jungle creep?

I'd like to see Rengar have something like that on his W.

If he kills or assists and hasn't lost vision of the enemy's location of death, his W should give a medium-sized buff for 2-4 minutes.
Super thematic, a Lion roaring to the world that his kill is "His Kill!!"


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Servantofthe99

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I dig VO as our solution, but a couple of reservations about Global VO -

1. The effect isn't global. TF reveals Globally, Nocturne removes sight Globally, but Rengar's effect does not have bearing on the entire map.

2. (and the one i personally think is a bigger deal) - Nocturne and TF put quite a bit of pressure on the map over the duration of their effects, specifically to your opponents. It's fine for toplane to be scared for ~4s during Paranoia when in reality he's ganking bottom, but is it okay for the entire map to want to change their behaviour/undergo stress for 12 seconds? 10? Can we make Rengar's ult last a satisfying or even appropriate length if everyone on the map is affected the whole time?

3. Can't guarantee that all players will be notified/notice, as not everyone plays with sound on - but an icon or text warning is unmistakable.

I really like using VO to convey the ultimate, but making it global becomes less 'this is a cool thing we could do' and more 'this is actually dipping into the power budget of the ultimate', and i'm not confident making it global vs 'a really wide range' for VO would be worth what we may have to take from it, or the kit.




Already planning on posting on EU, wanted to make a thread fresh with the newest iteration. As we're between iterations currently, expect a thread on EU forums before the week is out, as well as a main-page update to this thread.



Because Rengar is ghosted, and running incredibly quickly at them and can leap once he is within a range greater than some dashes.

All testing has shown that not even once has the icon been a deterrent from Rengar reaching the target - but rather opens a possibility for them to position better. It's all about communication to the enemy of what their situation is, and if they should split (So that Rengar can only leap on one of them) or that you can ready your cooldowns/shields to support the target you suspect he'll leap on - rather than simply not having the reaction time for a stealthed instagib.

As for the test, I went 5/1/4 and it was a 20 minute surrender - and while i was not the only variable in the test, there is nothing to suggest that the increased duration/movement speed isn't more than compensation for alerting his enemies.

He also gives his team vision of your team while he's doing it...so it's not like Rengar just sits there useless. It's an incredibly warping (yet satisfying) ultimate and i'm trying to maintain the feel and strength of it as Rengar's best hunting tool without crippling its effectiveness. So far, the warning seems the best way to accomplish both, and i'm always attempting to tune it where it'll be fair for both sides.
could you explain what that means? im kinda confused. also, since its mostly a utility/mobility ult will it have a shorter cd than the current live one?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kiddalee

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
The big changes we will be testing this week are Bone Tooth Necklace which will now give Rengar a personalized jungle item which has a really favorable build path out of Long Sword and Hunter's Machete.
Hiya. Will this remove Bonetooth Necklace from Dominion? Is this intentional? If it's intentional, I agree with the change (though many would not agree with me). If it's not intentional then we have a problem. Would Nome mind taking this to the next meeting?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Krazymouse

Junior Member

07-29-2013

Idea for E2

Rengar can cast Empowered Bola Strike on an allied champion. After being cast on an allied champion, that champion's next autoattack will apply the Empowered Bola Strike effect. Maybe half effect for ranged so that it doesn't be too overpowered, and maybe this can only work if you have X stacks on the BTN.


This would definitely create a "Hunting Party" kind of feel to Rengar, and may give Rengar a reason to use his ferocity on his E more often while not being too gamebreakingly powerful.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Iridos

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I dig VO as our solution, but a couple of reservations about Global VO -

1. The effect isn't global. TF reveals Globally, Nocturne removes sight Globally, but Rengar's effect does not have bearing on the entire map.

2. (and the one i personally think is a bigger deal) - Nocturne and TF put quite a bit of pressure on the map over the duration of their effects, specifically to your opponents. It's fine for toplane to be scared for ~4s during Paranoia when in reality he's ganking bottom, but is it okay for the entire map to want to change their behaviour/undergo stress for 12 seconds? 10? Can we make Rengar's ult last a satisfying or even appropriate length if everyone on the map is affected the whole time?

3. Can't guarantee that all players will be notified/notice, as not everyone plays with sound on - but an icon or text warning is unmistakable.

I really like using VO to convey the ultimate, but making it global becomes less 'this is a cool thing we could do' and more 'this is actually dipping into the power budget of the ultimate', and i'm not confident making it global vs 'a really wide range' for VO would be worth what we may have to take from it, or the kit.
I have no dog in this fight, as I don't much care which way you go as long as the VO range really is wide enough that it's likely to go off for people in multiple lanes, but for the record, 1 answers 2. Because the effect of the ult is only on the enemy team's play choices, rather than their actual capabilities, it's perfectly acceptable to make it longer... if they're warded correctly with pinks and know they're safe, or have deep wards and saw you ult and as a result know that they're safe, they can continue without changing their play pattern at all. This isn't true of either of the other ults you've mentioned. It would probably be more useful to think of it like a teleport... if you have proper vision control to be aware when someone may teleport and can see to where they may teleport, it's not a threat as a surprise, although it may be a threat in terms of game play.

Also, speaking as someone who somewhat regularly plays without sound, 3 is a concern.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wertilq

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Currently, we're nixing the 'minitrophy' stacks on Bonetooth for neutral kills. Created a lot of weird incentives where sometimes farming your jungle would be the best course of action until you reached your next tier, which is unfair for laning rengar.
How about getting trophies only for objectives?

Blue/Red/Dragon/Baron assist/kills.

Maybe even turrets :P


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

alfavhunter

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Cannon minions can work as the reward for rengar trophies on btn for lane rengar


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TypeOPositive

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post

2. E being a skillshot is largely benched. It's not clear what the actual gains of it would be, and melee skillshots (Kha'Zix, Skarner, Shyvana) are generally not fun/awkward to use.
Unless you give it an active debuff on the target that will allow Rengar to jump to the bola'd (couldn't help it!) target.
This way if you miss it - you miss it.But if you land it - ooohhhh, "somebody's gonna get a hurtin' reeeeaaaal bad".
Missing it will not add a Ferocity point. However can be cast on minions and monsters also applying the debuff thus allowing you to make da plays!

Roit plzzz!