A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Meph

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

14 stacks options:

-Ability modifiers-
Savagery now cleaves an area of effect similar to Tiamat.
Empowered Savagery cleaves similar to Ravenous Hydra.
(or potentially could silence enemies)

Battle Roar now strikes fear in Rengar's enemies, stunning them for 1 second.
Empowered Battle Roar stuns for 1.5-2 seconds.
(or potentially could heal allies)

Bola Shot can throw up to 3 bolas, similar to how Runaan's Hurricane splits ranged attacks.
Empowered Bola Shot hits up to 5 enemies, similar to Heimer's Upgrade ult.
(or potentially could chain lightning the bola to other enemies)

Thrill of the Hunt vision range increased. Medium-small AoE fear when jumping out of Thrill of the Hunt.

-New mechanics-
At 14 stacks Rengar is content with his trophy collection, allowing him to enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the feast it brings. Rengar heals 20% of his life off of champion kills. 10% for assists.
(could potentially be a medium-short heal over time)

At 14 stacks Rengar gains the King of the Jungle buff. When Rengar leaps on an enemy they are feared away from Rengar for 1 second. Cannot occur more than once every 5 seconds. ("Monsters can be made to fear.")

At 14 stacks Rengar is so ferocious that he mauls his enemies with each strike. His basic attacks deal 2% of enemies max health as magic damage.

At 14 stacks Regnar's Bone Tooth Necklace is fully assembled and grants him the confidence to slip about the battle field undeterred. Activate to provide a shield to Rengar that makes him ignore crowd control for 3 seconds.

At 14 stacks Rengar now provides the movement speed bonus from his ultimate to his allies (maybe half of it, similar to Raise Morale). Rocket cat AND Team Rocket go zoooooooooooom!


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ZooGambler

Junior Member

07-29-2013

Why not have 2 seperate items, one for in lane rengar and one for jungle rengar and if you purchase one you can't purchase the other? That would make top lane rengar on par with jungle rengar. Like Bonetooth Shoulderpads or something.


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Grey Verve

Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meph View Post
At 14 stacks Rengar now provides the movement speed bonus from his ultimate to his allies (maybe half of it, similar to Raise Morale). Rocket cat AND Team Rocket go zoooooooooooom!
This sounds pretty OP but still very cool. Like a souped up Nami ult.


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

07-29-2013
39 of 81 Riot Posts

Going to be testing this iteration today - then i'll be able to elaborate more on how it went, and give you a general confidence read on where everything is. So far we're pretty signed off on the direction of the Q-Train, pending numbers tuning.

Goals are:
- Simplify the warning on ultimate. Whether it's short-range icon, long range VO, etc, we're going to make a decision soon on which version of the warning we want, but likely not to do both of them.

- Heavy iteration on BTN. Already see a couple of things i'd like to see changed, would also like to respond to concerns/feedback that the item has no actual stats that would make you want to keep it end-game. I think we can fix this without saying 'flatly gives Arpen/CDR/Stuff'. Want this to be good for Lanegar as well, so paying special attention to the jungle-specific interations to see how they're playing out.Would also like to clarify that AD is not taken off of this item, and is a tuning point we can use for its efficiency.

Will post more stuff after playtests/conversations with the team and give you guys an update.


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Grey Verve

Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZooGambler View Post
Why not have 2 seperate items, one for in lane rengar and one for jungle rengar and if you purchase one you can't purchase the other? That would make top lane rengar on par with jungle rengar. Like Bonetooth Shoulderpads or something.
BTN+Brutalizer=
Bonetooth Brutalizer.
For lane kitties everywhere.


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Darklightning

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
The 14 stack bonus is still a pretty big grey area as we want Rengar players to reach this epic state at 14 stacks but we don't want them to do so at the cost of making his game play toxic again.

An additional mechanic we will be testing with BTN is allowing Rengar players to build stacks out of neutral monster kills. Currently the amount of neutral monster kills required to build a stack is pretty hefty, which encourages jungle Rengar to invade the enemy jungle to take camps but also hopefully interact with the enemy jungler. This mechanic is still kind of the grey area as well because it might give too many advantages to a jungle Rengar over a lane Rengar and we don't want to make laning Rengar's feel bad for purchasing this item.

If you guys have any thoughts on what epic thing Rengar should get at maximum stacks toss'em out! I look forward to the ideas you guys will give me and Scarizard!
First awesome changes to the necklace! I like the idea of having options outside of kills/assists so neutral monsters is nice. Why not lane as well? Just require more creeps for that... maybe add a little more value to cannon minions (like Nasus ability). This would reward a Rengar for successfully farming in a tough lane... or let him pull his stacks up later in the game when he starts farming multiple lanes. This lets him get a small edge if he is behind or keep it if he is ahead and loses stacks because of a death.

14 Stacks (ideas)
- 1 permanent ferocity point if at 14 stacks: Very visible and readable for the opponents. Just add a passive icon that explains when he is at 14 stacks he gets that extra power. This makes him a strong target.
-Increase to the ultimate time? That extra mobility would really help him influence the map.
- % of cooldown reduction - you pick the amount. This is similar to 1 permanent ferocity point, in that it ramps his damage up... but only if he is at 14 stacks and keeps it there.
- % increase to movement when not visible to enemy.
- Tenacity that stacks multiplicatively like Tenacious or immune to CC for so many seconds after ult (i confess a little too much like another champion). This gives him a chance to get out of an engage alive... provided they don't have a lot of immediate damage.
- Nothing. Absolutely nothing... except the mechanic of losing stacks goes away. You get to keep all the previous bonuses and they won't go away now if you go on a death streak. This would inspire them to play conservatively with their kills until 14 stacks and inspire the enemy to hammer them as they neared it. Also, it isn't exactly game breaking.
- He gets a ball of yarn and can play with it... I just threw this in because I doubt you'll read this far in.

DARKLIGHTNING


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Wero34

Senior Member

07-29-2013

At 14 stacks when he got a kill gain frenzy status he get a +2% atk and atk speed for each 10% of hp missing for 2 secs, cooldown 60 secs.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
The big changes we will be testing this week are Bone Tooth Necklace which will now give Rengar a personalized jungle item which has a really favorable build path out of Long Sword and Hunter's Machete. The overall price of the item has stayed the same but as Scarizard said in his posts, "mini-brutalizer" - esque stats will no longer exist on BTN. BTN is now an item that gives Rengar bonuses that directly impact his mobility in the jungle and thus his overall map pressure. The current bonuses in place look something like this:
You keep saying "we are not ignoring Dominion, the machete thing isn't a factor in the item's cost," but it's not particularly inspiring given that the information that you stripped all combat stats from it. Can you test a Dominion variant that builds out of boots or literally has Machete's gold cost stripped from it something?

Also, what do you envision this item's place is on a full item build rengar? Won't this run into a Viktor-esque problem if you guys ever get around improving jungler's gold flow where Rengar needs to sacrifice an item slot to make use of his passive proper?


*Oh, lawl, you ninja-edited with an answer to both my questions here.

Quote:
If you guys have any thoughts on what epic thing Rengar should get at maximum stacks toss'em out! I look forward to the ideas you guys will give me and Scarizard!
1. Minor flavor bonus like a small "see everything within 800 range at all times" vision effect to solidify him as king of brush and absorb necklace like Elisia's Miracle with bonuses becoming built into Rengar.

or

2. When rightclicking into brush, Rengar leaps into it. Probably broken, but damn if its not epic.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Going to be testing this iteration today - then i'll be able to elaborate more on how it went, and give you a general confidence read on where everything is. So far we're pretty signed off on the direction of the Q-Train, pending numbers tuning.

Goals are:
- Simplify the warning on ultimate. Whether it's short-range icon, long range VO, etc, we're going to make a decision soon on which version of the warning we want, but likely not to do both of them.

- Heavy iteration on BTN. Already see a couple of things i'd like to see changed, would also like to respond to concerns/feedback that the item has no actual stats that would make you want to keep it end-game. I think we can fix this without saying 'flatly gives Arpen/CDR/Stuff'. Want this to be good for Lanegar as well, so paying special attention to the jungle-specific interations to see how they're playing out.Would also like to clarify that AD is not taken off of this item, and is a tuning point we can use for its efficiency.

Will post more stuff after playtests/conversations with the team and give you guys an update.


So want to see a video of this playtest.


But I will have to settle for your essay.


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Xeiom

Senior Member

07-29-2013

BTN 14 Stacks Suggestions/Idea's

On 14 Stacks Rengar will now Leap to his next target within 3 seconds if he has been stunned,snared or feared.


On 14 stacks BTN gains an active effect, when activated Rengar may leap once within the next 2 seconds even without Brush (60 second cooldown)

on 14 stacks BTN if rengar leaves his ultimate without being seen by an enemy the cooldown is decreased by half. (If he decides to not go in then he'll get another opportunity sooner

on 14 stacks BTN Rengar becomes in tune with his predatory senses and can detect neutral monsters fighting without vision on them. (same range as his ultimate, doesn't detect what the monster is fighting)

on 14 stacks BTN Rengar can toggle his BTN to choose to leap in front or behind his enemy.

on 14 stacks BTN Rengar's Empowered Battle roar and Empowered Bola Strike also give rengar 3 ferocity when they hit.

on 14 stacks BTN Rengar's Thrill of the Hunt makes Rengar invulnerable but unable to take any action while he fades into stealth.

on 14 stacks Rengar's Battle Roar allows him to leap once in 2 seconds to opponents who were affected

Hope these idea's help you formulate a nice fully stacked BTN, I tried to keep all my suggestions to encourage the knifecat of be more offensive and not really provide too much defensive utility. If he's on 14 stacks then he should be ahead, as a predator he should be on the hunt when he is ahead.