A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Bambouské

Member

07-29-2013

Not sure for the stacks built off monsters since it may encourage a bit too much passive gameplay where you just farm the jungle till you're necklace is fuly stacked.

As for the 14th stack it should be something really powerful to be worth an item slot lategame but not too strong since the item doesn't cost much and can be stacked easily if snowballing. Thus it can't be something that gives him raw power bonus like enhancing his base spells, raw stats or jungle clear bonus. And since the 3, 6 and 9 stacks bonus already touch his leap, move speed and ultimate there's not that much left to empower that is not raw power.

So I guess the only choice left for the 14th stack would be to remove the item from the inventory just as elesia's miracle works. No bonus stats but you get all the previous bonii for free and for ever, seems legit. Maybe tone down a bit the bonii to balance it.


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Kelhan

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Did you remove the AD per level on bonetooth? If you did, remove the item and slap this on his ultimate.

If not, the idea that after the 14 stacks it becomes a permanent buff like Elisea is pretty cool. Another thing could be a ferocity stack bonus on his empowered Q or a Lower CD on the ult. I hate the idea that it now stacks with neutral minions kills. It disencourage offensive gameplay, promotes passive farming in the jungle and is too noobproof. You're trying to make it so even a Rengar that had a bad game can still farm up some stacks. It shouldn't even be allowed. He is THE hunter damn it, if he can't hunt successfully, then he doesn't deserve the stacks.

And please... he is NOT a bruiser. Stop trying to turn him into one. Why is it so compicated to have assassins in this game. It's not like he magically 100-0 everyone, he has to get pretty farmed in order to do this and after the remake it'll be easier for the enemy to detect him.

If the enemy ADC pops everytime because of assassins, maybe it's time to bring another type of character in the game to counter these. The meta shouldn't be enforced to the point we can't have any assassin in the game because it ruins an ADC day.


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Barnem

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Hey everybody, just wanted to update you guys with the current testing status of our current iteration of Rengar.

Heavy destructive testing will continue for the Empowered Savagery refunding 3 ferocity points play pattern. This past week we found that Rengar was still doing too much damage in too little of a time frame which is a problem we still need to solve within this iteration. This iteration also makes jungle Rengar incredibly resourceful as he can walk away from each creep camp with more ferocity stacks and gank lanes without as much preparation.

The big changes we will be testing this week are Bone Tooth Necklace which will now give Rengar a personalized jungle item which has a really favorable build path out of Long Sword and Hunter's Machete. The overall price of the item has stayed the same but as Scarizard said in his posts, "mini-brutalizer" - esque stats will no longer exist on BTN. BTN is now an item that gives Rengar bonuses that directly impact his mobility in the jungle and thus his overall map pressure. The current bonuses in place look something like this:

3 Stacks - Rengar gains 15% movement speed while in brush(bonus does not persist outside of brush like Nidalee's)

6 Stacks - Rengar gains 100 range on his Leap(slightly nerfed due to having access to it earlier.)

9 Stacks - Rengar retains movement speed from his Ultimate for 5 seconds after exiting his ultimate. (Rocket cat goes zooooooooom)

The 14 stack bonus is still a pretty big grey area as we want Rengar players to reach this epic state at 14 stacks but we don't want them to do so at the cost of making his game play toxic again.

An additional mechanic we will be testing with BTN is allowing Rengar players to build stacks out of neutral monster kills. Currently the amount of neutral monster kills required to build a stack is pretty hefty, which encourages jungle Rengar to invade the enemy jungle to take camps but also hopefully interact with the enemy jungler. This mechanic is still kind of the grey area as well because it might give too many advantages to a jungle Rengar over a lane Rengar and we don't want to make laning Rengar's feel bad for purchasing this item.

If you guys have any thoughts on what epic thing Rengar should get at maximum stacks toss'em out! I look forward to the ideas you guys will give me and Scarizard!
A mildly silly question but Rengar -will- be able to get a special reward from killing Kha'Zix in their game quest?


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aces2kj

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Riot just ignores most of the communitys feedback most are saying that they want him to be an assasin and they wont budge they want to make him a sustained fighter they ask for feedback we give them feedback for them to finally just ignore it and they're sacrificing lane rengar for jungle rengar Riot PLS


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Grey Verve

Member

07-29-2013

At 14 stacks, BTN gives Rengar a single choice of:

a) A Smite-like active.
b) Instant fade time for Ult.
c) Increased movement speed when facing enemy champions, towers, large jungle creep or epic monster+Tenacity.
d) QSS Active.
e) Tenacity .
d) Furor-like passive.
e) Allow Rengar to jump at jungle creeps and epics positions (without reveal) (for easier bush jumping).
f) A period where Rengar can jump after exiting bush/stealth.
g) Battle Roar/Bolas can reveal units (can also be used for easier bush jumping).
(e.g when escaping from enemies, Rengar can battle roar on the wall between the double golem wall, step into the bush and jump through OR bola an enemy escaping through bush, enter bush or step behind the bus behind and pounce!).
h) Rengar can now jump at allied units, minions and wards with his passive.
i) Boots of Mobility.
j) Mini Stealth - Active that gives 1 sec stealth.
k) Removes Rengar's ult warning.
l) Access to "jump points", places Rengar can right click to jump at.
m) Reveal-active/passive.
n) All attacks and abilities deal bonus damage to minions and monsters (Split Push Rengar)
o) Active: Mark- Rengar gain bonuses when attacking marked targets with AA and abilities.
p) Double Jump- Rengar can jump a small distance immediately after the first.
q) Half-Court Dunk - Even larger jump radius.
r) Movement bonuses DURING combat.

Take your pick. Plenty more in the trunk. I'd like something that would work best in a late game scenarios where split pushing, teamfights and wars over objectives are very common.


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Hellpyre

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Maybe Rengar could gain Thrill-o-vision within his leap radius whilst able to make a leap? That seems like it would add a lot of "I am the hunter" sort of moments, and also be fairly useful for chasing enemies near a lot of normal flashing walls.


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Fae Sorceres

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Thank you Riot, for ruining my champion. I'll be quitting the game now. **** you.


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Mobilized Boat

Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Hey everybody, just wanted to update you guys with the current testing status of our current iteration of Rengar.

Heavy destructive testing will continue for the Empowered Savagery refunding 3 ferocity points play pattern. This past week we found that Rengar was still doing too much damage in too little of a time frame which is a problem we still need to solve within this iteration. This iteration also makes jungle Rengar incredibly resourceful as he can walk away from each creep camp with more ferocity stacks and gank lanes without as much preparation.

The big changes we will be testing this week are Bone Tooth Necklace which will now give Rengar a personalized jungle item which has a really favorable build path out of Long Sword and Hunter's Machete. The overall price of the item has stayed the same but as Scarizard said in his posts, "mini-brutalizer" - esque stats will no longer exist on BTN. BTN is now an item that gives Rengar bonuses that directly impact his mobility in the jungle and thus his overall map pressure. The current bonuses in place look something like this:

3 Stacks - Rengar gains 15% movement speed while in brush(bonus does not persist outside of brush like Nidalee's)

6 Stacks - Rengar gains 100 range on his Leap(slightly nerfed due to having access to it earlier.)

9 Stacks - Rengar retains movement speed from his Ultimate for 5 seconds after exiting his ultimate. (Rocket cat goes zooooooooom)

The 14 stack bonus is still a pretty big grey area as we want Rengar players to reach this epic state at 14 stacks but we don't want them to do so at the cost of making his game play toxic again.

An additional mechanic we will be testing with BTN is allowing Rengar players to build stacks out of neutral monster kills. Currently the amount of neutral monster kills required to build a stack is pretty hefty, which encourages jungle Rengar to invade the enemy jungle to take camps but also hopefully interact with the enemy jungler. This mechanic is still kind of the grey area as well because it might give too many advantages to a jungle Rengar over a lane Rengar and we don't want to make laning Rengar's feel bad for purchasing this item.

If you guys have any thoughts on what epic thing Rengar should get at maximum stacks toss'em out! I look forward to the ideas you guys will give me and Scarizard!
Damn. I had faith in you guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Rengar NA View Post
Thank you Riot, for ruining my champion. I'll be quitting the game now. **** you.
Couldn't agree more. They just can't leave a perfectly fine assassin alone. Oh well.

RIOT:

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...ooth_necklace/

Read the thread. Everyone hates what you are doing. Just leave him alone.

One more thing: Stop making him so reliant on bushes. In the past, his passive was cool and everything because he goes top lane, but now you guys are taking that aspect and emphasizing it too much.

If you want constructive feedback, I'll give it to you. Just don't blow it off like everyone else's. Thank you. And trust me, I can tell you are blowing it off because you haven't listened to a word anyone has said, judging by your cute little patch notes.

EDIT: Oh yeah you guys may have to change his lore, because in his lore he is an assassin.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I think gaining a stack off killing or assisting in killing dragon and baron is better then getting stacks off jungle creeps.


And again at 14 stacks: Give him the effect of Oracle. Nothing says being the king of the jungle then taking vision out.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

07-29-2013

if it makes his jungle less ass I'm all for whatever.

gonna reserve proper evaluation until I can lay hands on the rework PBE-wise.