A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-24-2013

Show us a video of the playtest.


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Rastamon Ganja

Senior Member

07-24-2013

no new updates from a red. hmmm.


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Mobilized Boat

Member

07-24-2013

Please remove the partcile effect on his ult. It takes away the predator feeling, stalking your prey feeling and the surprise aspect to Rengar. On top of that, the Unseen Predator nerf is way, WAAAAAAY too much. If either of those changes go through, it's probably time for me to switch to another champion.

Sad, sad. Riot just can't leave him the **** alone, they have to go tweaking everything. It's not even like Rengar is picked often in professional play, Riot just wants to screw everything up. With the particle and unseen predator nerfs, Rengar will be dramatically less fun.

Thanks, Riot. ****ers.


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dragonstrike45

Member

07-24-2013

So time to dish out some more ideas for the tiger.

Possible idea for Rengar's W:
- instead of defensive steriod, it can give armor pen., empowered w can be used to mark target(s) for X seconds. While marked, Rengar's autos and abilites do bonus dmg. to his target(s).

On a completely different note, I'd like to make an input for the Bonetooth Necklace. If Rengar is enticed to get this item, it should give him a reason to buy it early game, work with it and actually keep it late game, not just sell it for a bloodthirster or something of the likes. As Riot mentioned, I don't see at as a statstick as much as I see it as an amplifier. The stats it should give Rengar to make it an endgame item should be interesting and mechanical, instead of for eg. Raw AD or Penetration. Here's an idea for the bonetooth necklace.

As some people may have mentioned it may be interesting to allow Rengar's bonetooth to have more choices input from the user. If his rival Khazix can EVOLVE on the battlefield, it is my opinion that Rengar should be allowed to ADAPT. Upon reaching X trophies, he should be given the ability to choose an offensive, defensive or a utility adaptation. Furthermore, I like the concept of his upgrades adding more to each of Rengar's ability (eg. enhancing his leap, etc.) Here is one way that I think that the bonetooth can be laid out:

- after A trophies, Rengar should be able to choose from 1 of 3 upgrades:
1) Offensive: Rengar gains % lifesteal equal to some constant multiplied by current level
2) Defensive: Rengar gains extra armor and mr per level
3) Utility: Rengar gains % movement speed proportional to level (doubled in bushes) - I think someone suggested this already btw
Reasoning: Rengar currently gets RAW ad. Instead, Bonetooth can give him alternate options that are more strategic and tuned to the state of the game.

*Following enhancements are only for EMPOWERED versions of rengar's abilities (except passive and ult).
*I considered Bola Strike's effect considering that it is a linear skillshot.

- Upon reaching B trophies, Rengar should be able to upgrade Bola strike
1) Offensive: Rengar stealths after hitting his target with the Bola for 1s - free jump to target
2) Defensive: Rengar's bola hits targets around his primary target for reduced damage and effect
Reasoning: Rengar's E is a utility/gap-closer move. As such it's upgrade can give offensive and defensive enhancements for upgrades.

- Upon reaching C trophies, Rengar should be able to upgrade Battle Roar
1) Offensive: Rengar does additional dmg to target based on missing hp of target
2) Utility: Rengar frees himself of CC
Reasoning: Current version of battle roar is defensive and can use offensive/utility enhancements.

- Upon reaching D trophies, Rengar should be able to upgrade Savagery
1) Defensive: Rengar's lifesteal ignores resistances
2) Utility: bonus movement speed for a duration + ignore unit collision
Reasoning: Rengar's savagery needs no more buffs, and can use defensive or utility enhancements.

- Upon reaching E trophies, Rengar gets 150 bonus leap range. In addition, his ult. once unstealthed, continues to generate ferocity at a diminshed/same rate.
Reasoning: leap is same as in live. Ult is more useful in battle as Rengar can do more after engaging his initial target.

* These changes are proposed to complement the current Rengar changes. They are just fodder for what Riot can look into. . I want a bad-ass tiger!


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

07-25-2013

Any updates? How did the playtests go? Any word on his E being a skillshot? Plz try and make it a skillshot :3


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Mobilized Boat

Member

07-25-2013

The changes to W make no sense.


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hoxE

Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonstrike45 View Post
So time to dish out some more ideas for the tiger.

* These changes are proposed to complement the current Rengar changes. They are just fodder for what Riot can look into. . I want a bad-ass tiger!
Some good ideas, but first and foremost lets address the fact that Rengar is not a Tiger.

Now then, one thing that your post brought to mind is in regards to the BTN and it being more than just a statstick. What if it had choices of buying an AP oriented upgrade or an AD oriented one. Maybe by upgrading a certain way it makes his roar/bola scale off ap and maybe savagery gives an MR debuff when it hits? I haven't seen many people bring up that build, so I'm just curious what Riot's stance is on making him viable in 2 different ways. Ideally with an AP build I would like to see more than just a double roar as a damaging option, hence the idea of making e/q sync up with the playstyle.


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RYKK888

Recruiter

07-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoxE View Post
Some good ideas, but first and foremost lets address the fact that Rengar is not a Tiger.
No, he's technically not a tiger, but that would be an awesome skin.


Now two other discussion ideas-- Bola Strike skillshot and Thrill of the Hunt stealth knock-back time.

1. If Bola Strike becomes a skill shot, it will need to be able to hit minions for his jungle clear to be any good. However, if it does not go through minions in lane, it will be a lot harder to poke/exchange against ranged champions. We could probably fix this problem by giving it greater range to make up for the fact that you have to aim it, and/or increased damage (which I think you're already looking at). Maybe the empowered version could be a full stun also, like Elise's.

2. One thing I have been hoping on Rengar since the initial nerfs is a reduction to his stealth knockback time. The only other champion I'm aware of that has a knock-back time is Twitch, and his stealth is a non-ultimate skill on a very squishy champion. Everyone else as far as I'm aware (Talon, Kha'zix, etc.) instantly stealths or has a fade-in time, but no knock-back damage delay. I realize that Rengar's original ult was being abused to just disappear from unpleasant situations/split push like mad, but the current version (3 sec knockback) has very little viability to be used for escaping or switching aggro. I know it is primarily an initiation hunt-kill skill now, but as an ultimate, it would be nice to have the option to use it for other playstyles. Maybe even a 2-sec knockback would be a good intermediate. With mulitiple opponents or good CC, a team could still easily lock him down, but against a single opponent, Rengar could now have the option of burning his ult to try to get away again.

This would open up a lot more options for how people use his ult. Talon currently often uses his ult in the middle of a team fight right after bursting someone down. It takes the attention off of him and does AOE damage to the enemy team. The ability to take aggro off of yourself for an assassin (either by disappearing or blinking out) is very important and offers more diverse playstyles. Currently, I have to literally flash into a bush for my ult to fully cloak me if I'm in a small skirmish. If Rengar doesn't initiate/ult before the fight, it takes so long to go into stealth that he really can't help the team out very much.

Just some thoughts, give me some feedback on them.


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hoxE

Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RYKK888 View Post
No, he's technically not a tiger, but that would be an awesome skin.


Now two other discussion ideas-- Bola Strike skillshot and Thrill of the Hunt stealth knock-back time.

1. If Bola Strike becomes a skill shot, it will need to be able to hit minions for his jungle clear to be any good. However, if it does not go through minions in lane, it will be a lot harder to poke/exchange against ranged champions. We could probably fix this problem by giving it greater range to make up for the fact that you have to aim it, and/or increased damage (which I think you're already looking at). Maybe the empowered version could be a full stun also, like Elise's.

2. One thing I have been hoping on Rengar since the initial nerfs is a reduction to his stealth knockback time. The only other champion I'm aware of that has a knock-back time is Twitch, and his stealth is a non-ultimate skill on a very squishy champion. Everyone else as far as I'm aware (Talon, Kha'zix, etc.) instantly stealths or has a fade-in time, but no knock-back damage delay. I realize that Rengar's original ult was being abused to just disappear from unpleasant situations/split push like mad, but the current version (3 sec knockback) has very little viability to be used for escaping or switching aggro. I know it is primarily an initiation hunt-kill skill now, but as an ultimate, it would be nice to have the option to use it for other playstyles. Maybe even a 2-sec knockback would be a good intermediate. With mulitiple opponents or good CC, a team could still easily lock him down, but against a single opponent, Rengar could now have the option of burning his ult to try to get away again.

This would open up a lot more options for how people use his ult. Talon currently often uses his ult in the middle of a team fight right after bursting someone down. It takes the attention off of him and does AOE damage to the enemy team. The ability to take aggro off of yourself for an assassin (either by disappearing or blinking out) is very important and offers more diverse playstyles. Currently, I have to literally flash into a bush for my ult to fully cloak me if I'm in a small skirmish. If Rengar doesn't initiate/ult before the fight, it takes so long to go into stealth that he really can't help the team out very much.

Just some thoughts, give me some feedback on them.
With how many awesome big cat skins they could pull off, I'm shocked they haven't gone for anything like that yet. That being said, I think the default skin is pretty badass and I wish he didn't have weird lion dreadlocks.

I like the ult knockback thing, and I agree that it needs addressed. I think it does need a little knockback especially if its going to give more movespeed and last longer (which was mentioned in testing comments) but I think it should have a smaller max knockback time. If somebody jumps me and I ult and they really want the kill, I expect them to have to pink it or have an oracles.


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acually is tolan

Senior Member

07-25-2013

It sounds like by making W and E scale based on Rengar's character level and not on the skill level, you're forcing Rengar players to max Q first. I thought Riot was opposed to pigeonholing players into one type of build, but I guess not.