A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Mitch the Mitch

Junior Member

07-22-2013

Not sure if anyone has stated this already, but I believe Rengar is not entirely a fighter or assassin. In my opinion, he is actually a melee AD carry, due to reliance on autoattacks for damage, but that damage being top tier.

Rengar most closely resembles Fiora of the current AD carries. Like Fiora, Rengar has:

  • Attack Speed Steroid
  • Move Speed Steroid
  • Ability to dash onto an enemy, multiple times in the right scenario
  • Heavy Burst
  • Ultimate which offers both executions and untargetability

Unlike other melee AD carries, Rengar has no AD steroid (Gangplank's Raise Morale, Trynd's Bloodlust, Yi's Wuju Style, Fiora's Riposte). There are 2 things I think make up for his lack of an AD Steroid:
  • Auto-attack reset, a tool no other melee AD carry posesses
  • A range "steroid" on his attacks from brush/ult

Now, the range steroid on his attacks almost removes him from the category of melee AD carries, but I think all would agree this is a good thing as it is perhaps the most fun/unique/definitive aspect of Rengar's kit.

At the same time of having no AD steroid, Rengar is the only melee AD carry with an armor/magic resist steroid(from Battle Roar), aside from Yi during mediate, which is not at all emphasized on AD Yi and is being removed soon. Battle Roar does, however, give Rengar a small amount of sustain, something else all the other melee AD carries share (Gangplank's Remove Scurvy, Fiora's Passive, Trynd's Bloodlust, Yi's Meditate).

Given this knowledge about what Rengar lacks from other melee AD carries and what he gains from Battle Roar that other carries don't have access to, I think a nice change to his kit could be changing Battle Roar to as follows:

Battle Roar
ACTIVE: Rengar lets out a battle roar, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies. If an enemy is hit by Battle Roar, Rengar also gains bonus attack damage for 5 seconds, as well as %reduced damage from autoattacks.

The Ferocity cast of Battle Roar would receive the same health gain from before. I removed the armor and magic resist in favor of bonus attack damage, resistance to autoattacks, and a slightly longer duration. This would fill Rengar's gap of no AD steroid while simultaneously helping out his jungling significantly. I have not mentioned it yet, but Rengar also belongs in the jungle more so than any other melee AD carry and is perhaps where he should most commonly be found. We all know that if Rengar is expected to be seen in the jungle more, he needs help to get there.

Now, we know that the tag "carry" is being removed from the game, but have had no indication that the 4 current melee AD carries will function entirely differently. Somewhere I saw a red state that Fiora and Yi would be tagged assassins, Trynd a fighter. I see no problem with Rengar being labeled as an assassin or assassin/fighter while maintaining my perceived feel of a melee AD carry. Looking at champs and tags now, Xin Zhao has both the tags assassin and fighter, and he is essentially a melee AD carry as well due to his reliance on autoattacks for most of his damage. Xin, however, can be built tanky, so he more appropriately falls into the bruiser category. I would prefer Rengar to not fall into the bruiser category of playstyle and keep him as the melee AD carry I see him as now.

I realize that this post is both:
  • Long, run-on, and a bit repetitive
  • Entirely focused and based on the perception that Rengar is/should be a melee AD carry in functionality

I'm sorry if you felt it was a waste of time for me to post this much due to the fact that Rengar isn't/shouldn't be a melee AD carry. I just thought that I would give my two cents on Rengar as I truly love this champion and want him to receive a fair judgment upon being "tweaked". I realize I posted not much other than a change to his Battle Roar and my argument for him being a melee AD carry, ignoring 3 of his abilities and his passive. I don't know what the development team should do with those abilities and his passive, so I thought it would be better not to say anything.

Until next time,don't forget to "carve off a souvenir" when you're killing things with the Stabcat!


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psloan

Senior Member

07-22-2013

I like the triple ferocity bonus on Q it sounds pretty fun to me

but i dont understand how that combo would last to long? i might have missed something if his shortest cool down is his q at 6 seconds (this is at level 5 of course) how could he pull off any more then 2 empowered q's?

if you have 5 feroicty (lets say everything is off cooldown) you hit empowered Q -> Q-> W-> EMP Q-> E

if you do this quick enough (which i believe most players can) you still have 4 to 5 seconds to wait ... not to mention i can do this in rengars current state like any good rengar player can.

id like to see some changes to his durability myself i think his hardest lane matches top are against high damage tankier bruisers (i.e. darius , riven , renekton) i always have a tough time with darius as i think rengars damage doesnt relate well against tanky champs early (im hoping the emp q train might help this?)

please help me understand what part of the puzzle i am missing did they lower his CD? are they expecting us to figure that out with his build? maybe prehaps building CD in order to get a longer combo? but then either his durability suffers?

either way i love rengar's playstyle/backstory as a hunter and i LOVE the the idea of having enemies hear me when i go into stealth/around them gives a bit of roleplay to the game i want to see people instantly start hugging towers once they hear it RUN IN FEAR!!!


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GodBroJ

Senior Member

07-22-2013

call it like i see it guy's and gal's..it's a nerf


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-22-2013

Please show us a video of the play test.

I keep saying this but you can't get good free back from us with just words and your personal opinion. We want to see it in action.


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GusMalzahn

Senior Member

07-22-2013

Rengar has to get nerfed/completely reworked because the damn koreans figured out how to exploit him


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GUMmyBEAR69

Member

07-22-2013

what patch is this going to come out?


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ScubaDivingPoop

Senior Member

07-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMmyBEAR69 View Post
what patch is this going to come out?
Probably wont be out for a while, still in the early testing stages where ideas are being thrown around. You'll know its coming soon when its up in the PBE server


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Ask Tyrant Swain

Member

07-22-2013

meh


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Paertin

Junior Member

07-22-2013

I've been reading over this thread since it started and, as an avid Rengar player, I must admit I was scared you guys might have ruined my "loving" Kitty, but I now see you guys are doing a really good job with him. Thank you for that. You have my trust that you'll make something even more fun with my favorite champion.

I also have an idea to put forth. I jungle Rengar on a consistant basis, and one of the most annoying things is not getting that passive activated as you come out of bushes to gank lanes because it wore off too quickly to allow you to utilize it.

My idea is why not have a way to incorporate his passive lasting for 1-2 seconds after coming out of the bush? Maybe add it to the utilities of Bonetooth? Of course, this would probably mean you guys would have to clean up his passive's inconsistancy after leaving bushes, but I think it'd be a strong boost for jungle Rengar, as well as top-lane Rengar if he roams.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to how you guys make my Rengar even more enjoyable than before.


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Steamcario

Senior Member

07-22-2013

I'm kinda worried about the buffs you guys are giving to W and E. he's already a toxic nunu-esque top laner who just throws bolas at you at no cost and heals off of W. and you're buffing the living **** out of this already nearly unbeatable playstyle. With this current direction I'm pretty certain he's gonna get nerfed to oblivion again like after release because he'll be literally unbeatable in lane... I mean yeah with the current ult rengar jumps on you out of stealth, but even with triple Q that burst has no hard CC and still takes probably a second and a half to do because Q's animation is lengthy for an AA. I just don't get why this is what's hit because he generally can't catch things in lanes once they just CC/mobility away. I mean, not only does it have a super long cooldown and he has to run in... but it's an ult... I mean TF teleports halfway across the map, nocturne flies a good distance, and Zac can make rediculous ganks happen with a normal ability. really you can just deal with rengar like you deal with nocturne, just ward deep and play safe if you know he's close. if rengar doesn't get his murder gold he gets useless really fast in jungle.

I mean, I'm somewhat ok with the current direction you're taking him because he will be brokenly strong for awhile. But I just wanted to mention that while you're fixing things that are somewhat toxic, you're creating new problems and making what I believe is the most toxic thing about him (E+W lane phase) even stronger and even more toxic.