A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Notalent

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Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I would assume a smart player would be ganking a lower health target or save the ult to catch a fleeing opponent after he's burned flash.

Either way, it seems like you already have made up your mind before playing it. Counterplay is a good thing for a character. Rengar getting away without warning for so long is why he's been nerfed to the level he's at now.
No I'm comparing successful junglers and what they bring to the table, and why they are successful. Riot seemed shocked when J4 emerged as a dominant jungler in the spring split, and the reason was his ability to get around wards and bring cc to his ganks. Lee Sin has re-emerged as a dominant jungler, and again part of the reason is his ability to get around wards and bring cc to ganks. Evelyn has re-emerged this split because again, the ability to get around wards.

So your idea to make Rengar successful is to strip him of his ability to get around wards, while still not giving him hard cc.

You keep bringing up ambush ults as having counter play via announcement, but those characters bring hard cc and longer ranges to balance that. I'd rather you just strip him of his stealth if your going to make using it as a stealth tool counter productive. Come up with something new and interesting to replace it.


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ZeroAgainst

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Well, Rengar's feeling remains intact. You are welcome to continue disagreeing with me, so I'm posting this:

Huge Caveats: Balance not done, etc.

I am assuming here that you're using Rengar's ult to jump onto the target as quickly as possible from as close as possible.

Now, if you're coming out of the jungle with 0 combo points and need to wait the full 5 seconds of stealth to charge-up your ferocity, or you want to stealth to avoid a ward, you'll need to stand back a little bit further or be willing to chase them with the warning up. But that situation is preventable.

Here's where you would mark the target from a fast bush gank (click stealth + run) or back lane gank. Keep in mind you also have 10-50% movement speed bonus at this point.

Attachment 736189 Attachment 736190

These gank positions are amazing. Factor in human reaction time and the fact that Rengar can still tower dive and run away, and this stabcat looks like he's great to me.
im most curious if u got new voice actor for his ult or his voice actor came back or did u get a new voice actor for it or is it what he says to kha zix the new lines? also can he duel kha zix 1 on 1? ever since his q buff ive seen rengar lose those 1 on 1 s .


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
These Gank positions are amazing............if the enemy has absolutely 0 wards, which wont happen by the time Rengar reaches lvl 6

Any smart mid will Ward Wraith entrances and/or River (specially knowing that Rengar's "new" ultimate becomes useless if he does), which can easily spot Rengar if you NEED to activate your ultimate almost next to them, in order to reduce the "warning time", and if you activate it from an spot where wards can't see you, you become a Naruto

Now on a bot lane scenario, where the enemy support wards Tri, River and probably the second lane bush, your ultimate becomes %5000000000 useless, because you can't use it to bypass wards anymore

Then again, as i said on a couple posts earlier, just scrap the ultimate, replace it with something similar to Gondar's Tracking, i sincerely dont want to play Rengar ever again if his stealh becomes a "jump + MS", might as well play Evelynn and press W (and Evelynn can bypass wards, and doesnt need to waste an ultimate to do so)

Unless it pink warded....It is not useless.


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RobotDCLXVI

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Senior Member

07-21-2013

Delete Rengar.


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FlatCap

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Senior Member

07-21-2013

1. I absolutely love what you are doing with rengar, i think its super keen, all that fun jazz.

2. I think you should probably avoid making your comments personal, as it just comes off as arrogant. I dont mean to imply that you are arrogant or anything of the sort, but i just felt the need to let you know how youre displaying yourself.


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t4tNoFp4Ve

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Attachment 736195

Aatrox just sees the icon over his head.
Then Q's to tower safely like nothing happened

and no, i dont wanna point out how many champs could jump to tower safely

Not to mention that from that spot, any jungler with a gap closer could gank just as well (if not better, because of HARD CC) and not tell the enemy they are standing there

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdragoon88 View Post
Unless it pink warded....It is not useless.
Rengar ult's behind tower and waits for stealth to come into play

Enemy bot lane receives the icon, and head back to tower, carry uses his dash (because almost every carry has one), and the support does whatever he can do (sona's MS, Leona activates Eclipse and Q just in case, Thresh is Thresh, etc)

Rengar goes back to the jungle, with a pretty sad look on his face, and they didnt even need pinks for it


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Now if Annie is instantly killing you, can you buy Magic Resist?

If Ranged AD is poking and kiting you, what can you buy to defeat that?

Can you get a Blink Dagger? Black King Bar?

Look to this game's balance.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
Then Q's to tower safely like nothing happened

and no, i dont wanna point out how many champs could jump to tower safely
Of course they can!

This is perhaps one reason assassins and burst mages became 'bad'. They largely lost the ability to finish the job.

But their targets didn't lose the ability to escape or itemize against them.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

07-21-2013
29 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furi Kuri View Post
And we were promised buffs, what are we getting? Q burst nerfs, ult nerf. Thanks.
I'll leave it to Wav3break and Scarizard to take credit for the specific buffs. The big ones that jump out to me are the jungling survivability buffs, massive base HP regen increase, W and E damage are increased, the empowered W damage and E root duration are also just shy of double strength.

They've really made him a much better character in exchange for fixing a broken ultimate.

Like... I feel like this new Rengar is broken strong now.


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The Dunkmaster

Senior Member

07-21-2013

If you've realised all of these design problems with Rengar, why didn't you solve it before releasing him?

You covered the subject with the Evelynn rework, Twisted Fate, Nocturne etc, why did Rengar make it through testing/kit design phase without a warning?

Why was he given a fighter kit and then an assassin ultimate?

Make his kit more assassin-like, generally the Rengar players want him to be an assassin like he is now.

Why can't you remove his tankiness then? People have suggested his Battle Roar shouldn't give defensive stats and more offensive stats, remove his heal and replace it with a % amount of more damage or armor reduction for everyone in the radius who was hit?

We want to kill people in 2-4 seconds, not kill them in 5-6 seconds like what is planned.