A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Krazymouse

Junior Member

07-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
That being said, some ideas surrounding Bone Tooth Necklace giving team utility on empowered abilities or team utility in general sound interesting since your team helps you stack it anyways. Now instead of being a solo hunter your team can also be part of the hunting pack ?
Here's an idea for team utility on empowered abilities.

When the Bonetooth Necklace has X stacks, Empowered Bola Strike can be cast on allied champions. Giving them the buff called "Carrying Bola Net." (Or something? I'm bad with names.) While having the buff "Carrying Bola Net," that allied champion's next auto-attack will apply the Empowered Bola Strike.

And I was thinking for balance, maybe have it so that if the champion was ranged, the duration would be halved, and full for melee champions. Or something along those lines.


It gives Rengar the ability to do some cool teamwork stuff, especially if Rengar is not in range to throw his Bola Stike, but his teammate is, so he can toss it to his teammate, giving Rengar time to catch up to the enemy. It could also create some more interesting ganks, and give Rengar an incentive to not spam his Q for damage, since this can be a form of harassment using the long range of other ranged champions.


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Lee Alphonse

Junior Member

07-20-2013

Jungle kitty is best kitty and building bonetooth out of other items sounds awesome.
Really hoping that my favorite champion becomes jungle viable after these reworks, keep it up!


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ScubaDivingPoop

Senior Member

07-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazymouse View Post
Here's an idea for team utility on empowered abilities.

When the Bonetooth Necklace has X stacks, Empowered Bola Strike can be cast on allied champions. Giving them the buff called "Carrying Bola Net." (Or something? I'm bad with names.) While having the buff "Carrying Bola Net," that allied champion's next auto-attack will apply the Empowered Bola Strike.
That sound so stupid


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Skhorne

Junior Member

07-20-2013

I really like that out of the box idea of giving your teammate a bola strike to snare your enemy (b^_^)b.


I do have an idea for a rework of rengar's ult, why not have rengar's ult reworked to have an invisible net trap that can be placed anywhere on the ground (with a max of 3 traps). These traps can be destroyed with 5 auto-attacks (by trapped target or teammate), gives rengar a global ability to jump to target location ( which can also be used against him for counter-ganks).


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ThisTimeForREALS

Senior Member

07-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Despite this change supplementing a more Fighter-ish Rengar, he is still able to dish out a lot of damage on enemy squishies in a very short time period, preserving his assassin feel. What I am hoping this change does (and I'll be able to confidently say if it does with more testing) is that Rengar can still be opportunistic and try to assassinate enemy squishies, but instead of all his damage being dished out in a 1-2 second window, it will happen in a 3-4 second window where the initial burst is around 70-80% of what his kill combo looks like and his second wave of burst comes a tad bit after.
Nope, here's what will happen, since Rengar won't be able to assassinate someone in one combo, he will no longer be allowed to build damage because he will need to be survivable enough to dish out a second round of his abilities. Except wait, since he's doing less damage, he won't be able to assassinate someone in even two rounds of spells! Now he's just a tanky derp who is less useful than most because of the lack of utility in his kit that makes most tanky dps popular.


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ChocoKelly

Senior Member

07-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Hey everyone, I just wanted to update you guys with my findings in implementing and initial testing the iteration with the Q train/Empowered Savagery generating/refunding 3 ferocity points on hit.

There is still some mixed internal feedback with how the overall play pattern feels but I think it is generally trending towards a positive direction. As you guys can probably discern, since Empowered Savagery is giving you so much ferocity as a means for you to start up another combo chain of Empowered Savagery(s) or accessing your other empowered abilities, the natural damage of Rengar's Empowered Savagery has gone down by quite a bit. In return, the sheer amount of Empowered Savagery casts you can throw out within a limited amount of time has sky rocketed. #KnifeCatBaby.

In order to supplement this play style, I've added a mechanic such that multiple Empowered Savagery casts on the same target will mark the target as "Rengar's Chosen Prey" and amp the damage of consecutive Empowered Savagery casts on them. Currently this debuff caps at 2 stacks and it will give Rengar a more fighter based play pattern because in drawn out fights the Rengar player will have to manage this debuff as well as make on the fly decision making of whether or not he should break out of his combo to access his Empowered Battle Roar or Empowered Bola Strike.

Despite this change supplementing a more Fighter-ish Rengar, he is still able to dish out a lot of damage on enemy squishies in a very short time period, preserving his assassin feel. What I am hoping this change does (and I'll be able to confidently say if it does with more testing) is that Rengar can still be opportunistic and try to assassinate enemy squishies, but instead of all his damage being dished out in a 1-2 second window, it will happen in a 3-4 second window where the initial burst is around 70-80% of what his kill combo looks like and his second wave of burst comes a tad bit after.

Additionally, due to this triple ferocity gain on Empowered Savagery, I had to tune some of his other numbers around with Battle Roar and Bola Strike. These numbers are still very subject to change but I want to let you guys know that they will definitely change to reflect this system. Regarding my questions on Bola Strike last post: it feels like it will still remain a targeted ability for now.

I'll be doing more work on polishing the rest of his changes over the weekend and will hopefully be able to give you guys a confident answer with Scarizard as to whether or not triple Ferocity gaining on Empowered Savagery tested well sometime next week!

P.S. An update on Bone Tooth Necklace - I've been reading a lot of the suggestions and they have all been very inspiring. I just want to reiterate the direction we are going with this item: it is an item that Rengar should not feel pressured to buy in every game, but rather an item that gives Rengar players who want to consciously play the "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat" play style a means of being even more "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat." That being said, some ideas surrounding Bone Tooth Necklace giving team utility on empowered abilities or team utility in general sound interesting since your team helps you stack it anyways. Now instead of being a solo hunter your team can also be part of the hunting pack ?

Anyways, awesome ideas guys, keep them coming! Remember things are still subject to change.
Thanks for ruining Rengar, awesome job. I quit this game after these changes will go live. Go do this to him ;bola skillshot , change his ultimate do whatever u want already pointless changes.


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TalLavi

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Senior Member

07-20-2013

I really like the VO part of the ulti, but like other people pointed out I really think the mark is a bad choice.

The VO should be enough, the whole point of Rengar is that you can ulti and get past wards and gank a lane, but unlike Nocturne or Eve, who can close this gap fast this might take 3~4 seconds to get in range of the enemy, and with these current changes once the enemy hears/sees the warnings he has those 3~4 seconds to back off and run to his turret.

I think having a Global VO is enough, this way everyone knows that Rengar is "on the hunt" and if you are over extended this is your time to back off, but if its kept as it is now you are just pointing a huge sign over the persons head screaming RENGAR IS COMING TO GET YOU, BACK OFF.

Also if these current changes play out, it will be super easy to counter Rengar. Once you see the sign just plant a pink ward where you stand and run back to your turret, this way you have 3~4 seconds to run back and you can see him before he gets in range to grab you.

Edit:
Another thing that came to me, Rengar is the UNSEEN predator, those changes will ruin it. The whole point of the UNSEEN predator is the feeling of jumping innocent people out of no where, the VO is a nice while its global because it strikes fear into people, but once you put a huge sign over someones head telling him RENGAR IS COMING you are kinda taking the whole jump by surprise unseen and unknown part of Rengar.

This change will really ruin the FEEL of rengar for me and will make his stealth less of a go-around-enemy-team-strike-the-squishy and more of a use to get more ferocity/run away/chase someone who already knows your are chasing him.


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Eisenkrieger

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Senior Member

07-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Regarding my questions on Bola Strike last post: it feels like it will still remain a targeted ability for now.



P.S. An update on Bone Tooth Necklace - I've been reading a lot of the suggestions and they have all been very inspiring. I just want to reiterate the direction we are going with this item: it is an item that Rengar should not feel pressured to buy in every game, but rather an item that gives Rengar players who want to consciously play the "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat" play style a means of being even more "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat." That being said, some ideas surrounding Bone Tooth Necklace giving team utility on empowered abilities or team utility in general sound interesting since your team helps you stack it anyways. Now instead of being a solo hunter your team can also be part of the hunting pack ?

Anyways, awesome ideas guys, keep them coming! Remember things are still subject to change.
Thank you so much for keeping Bola targeted. If I had to put forward an idea for utility on the necklace maybe make one of the upper end bonuses give his teammates a mini sivir ult minus the attack speed so they can all chase someone along with him.


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matrinox

Senior Member

07-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
P.S. An update on Bone Tooth Necklace - I've been reading a lot of the suggestions and they have all been very inspiring. I just want to reiterate the direction we are going with this item: it is an item that Rengar should not feel pressured to buy in every game, but rather an item that gives Rengar players who want to consciously play the "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat" play style a means of being even more "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat." That being said, some ideas surrounding Bone Tooth Necklace giving team utility on empowered abilities or team utility in general sound interesting since your team helps you stack it anyways. Now instead of being a solo hunter your team can also be part of the hunting pack ?

Anyways, awesome ideas guys, keep them coming! Remember things are still subject to change.
What if Bonetooth first few rewards help him out in solo/skirmishes and his others become more team focused? That kind of helps him transition from jungle lane ganks to team fighting as he picks more heads up.


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Comedian

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Senior Member

07-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Hey everyone, I just wanted to update you guys with my findings in implementing and initial testing the iteration with the Q train/Empowered Savagery generating/refunding 3 ferocity points on hit.

There is still some mixed internal feedback with how the overall play pattern feels but I think it is generally trending towards a positive direction. As you guys can probably discern, since Empowered Savagery is giving you so much ferocity as a means for you to start up another combo chain of Empowered Savagery(s) or accessing your other empowered abilities, the natural damage of Rengar's Empowered Savagery has gone down by quite a bit. In return, the sheer amount of Empowered Savagery casts you can throw out within a limited amount of time has sky rocketed. #KnifeCatBaby.

In order to supplement this play style, I've added a mechanic such that multiple Empowered Savagery casts on the same target will mark the target as "Rengar's Chosen Prey" and amp the damage of consecutive Empowered Savagery casts on them. Currently this debuff caps at 2 stacks and it will give Rengar a more fighter based play pattern because in drawn out fights the Rengar player will have to manage this debuff as well as make on the fly decision making of whether or not he should break out of his combo to access his Empowered Battle Roar or Empowered Bola Strike.

Despite this change supplementing a more Fighter-ish Rengar, he is still able to dish out a lot of damage on enemy squishies in a very short time period, preserving his assassin feel. What I am hoping this change does (and I'll be able to confidently say if it does with more testing) is that Rengar can still be opportunistic and try to assassinate enemy squishies, but instead of all his damage being dished out in a 1-2 second window, it will happen in a 3-4 second window where the initial burst is around 70-80% of what his kill combo looks like and his second wave of burst comes a tad bit after.

Additionally, due to this triple ferocity gain on Empowered Savagery, I had to tune some of his other numbers around with Battle Roar and Bola Strike. These numbers are still very subject to change but I want to let you guys know that they will definitely change to reflect this system. Regarding my questions on Bola Strike last post: it feels like it will still remain a targeted ability for now.

I'll be doing more work on polishing the rest of his changes over the weekend and will hopefully be able to give you guys a confident answer with Scarizard as to whether or not triple Ferocity gaining on Empowered Savagery tested well sometime next week!

P.S. An update on Bone Tooth Necklace - I've been reading a lot of the suggestions and they have all been very inspiring. I just want to reiterate the direction we are going with this item: it is an item that Rengar should not feel pressured to buy in every game, but rather an item that gives Rengar players who want to consciously play the "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat" play style a means of being even more "mega-hunter-jungle-knife-cat." That being said, some ideas surrounding Bone Tooth Necklace giving team utility on empowered abilities or team utility in general sound interesting since your team helps you stack it anyways. Now instead of being a solo hunter your team can also be part of the hunting pack ?

Anyways, awesome ideas guys, keep them coming! Remember things are still subject to change.
But will Rengar consume his bonetooth (similar to Elisa's miracle) upon max stacks or so many levels?