A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Gene Imori

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!
As long as you dont ruin Bola Strike (The best part of his kit), I would actually enjoy it being a skill shot.


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Kenzai

Recruiter

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
*snip*

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

*snip*
Hello, Wav3Break. I just wanted to comment on this in hopes that you'd possibly reply. I first want to say that I really like the Ferocity Q idea, I think it makes Rengar a much more active champion than before, forcing the player to think about continuing the Q chain or breaking the chain with an Empowered W or E. This is a very fun play pattern in my opinion and allows you to take power away from his instagibbing of one champion and puts that power in other facets of his game.

Anyways, about Bola Strike - would turning it into a skill shot bring some (slightly) increased range? It definitely increases Rengar's skill floor/ skill ceiling but turning it from targeted to a skill shot would definitely require a power boost of some sort to compensate for the possibility of missing and inability to use it through minions, champions, etc. What were you thinking about in terms of team utility?

Just a side note about Bola Strike, I'm kind of a nut for trying to make champions have a very unique flavor to abilities depending on the champions archetype. I was thinking, seeing as Bola's are actually spun above the throwers head to 'charge' up the throw, what if Rengar could charge up his Bola throw for more range? Maybe it could use similar coding to Vi's Vault Breaker (without the MS slow). The shortest range (no charge to the throw) could be as long as his currently targeted version which is pretty small (575, I believe). I am unsure what kind of implications this would have on his laning phase in terms of abusiveness. I can't see it being that big of a problem as the current Bola Strike works through minions and this version would get blocked like other skill shots.

Let me know about your ideas to added team utility on Bola Strike!


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r4ym4n217

Junior Member

07-18-2013

I think it would be cool to have Bola Strike as a skill shot. Maybe Empowered Bola Strike could throw two Bolas that would snare the enemy? Kind of thinking along the lines of Lux's Q. Just a thought.


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Gurog

Member

07-18-2013

please make him more viable in the jungle..


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IS1534ee3257eff740e71b4

Junior Member

07-18-2013

awfull you are killing rengar!


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TROUNCE

Junior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
So i'm finishing up packing and heading to bed before my flight in the morning (For those of you who missed the previous post, i'm heading the Spain for the EU Pro Player conference for a couple of days) but wanted to let you guys know about the iteration we just clocked - while i won't be around for playtests on thursday or friday, Wav3break will be tuning numbers and driving it while i'm gone.

I'll update the original post as well, but the changes look something like:

Savagery
- Attack Speed reinstated, -slight- buff to %AS, -slight- nerf to base damage.

Empowered Savagery
- In addition to dealing bonus damage, grants Rengar 3 Ferocity.

So what does this mean? Basically, Rengar's Empowered Savagery sets him up for a potential Ryze-like spell chain. Feedback from this thread has been that (Triple Q or no), you guys really like stabbing. With this setup, you can Q2 -> Q, W, -> Q2, E. Q ->Q2 again, with a higher degree of Attack Speed than before. I've played around with the changes a bit with a few people and i have to say it looks pretty awesome tbh. You lie in wait, ready for the kill....and then you proceed to maul your target's face off.

Another cool thing about the 'Q-Train' as Volty calls it, is that you can end the cycle at any point with Empowered Battle Roar or Emp. Bola strike and call it a day, winning trades or flatly disengaging. We still need to see what this does in laning situations, but from i can tell it drastically increases his engagement windows but highly rewards him for 'keeping up' his combos - all while hacking away like a madman.

I suspect it will be slightly OP with this version, but we can always tune. One idea we had is to slightly lower the damage further of Empowered Savagery, but instead have it apply a debuff making your next Emp. Savagery deal 50% more damage (probably only stacks 3 times?). This option feels unnecessary at -this- point, but can proceed to it if his laning is obnoxious but we like the pattern of Q2. Also drives home a lot of the 'single-target mauling predator' feel if you can single out your prey and make their lives hell.

Feeling more confident about this version, but everything is always subject to change. Could possibly see Bola's slow% being increased to accomodate Rengar's knifing around if he's having too much trouble gettin' to the folks he needs. Looking into using Battle Roar as a slot to provide a mechanic that helps him survive endgame without making his solo/dueling cases feel unbeatable - some of you guys have suggested a Wukong-like 'Less defense, but stacking with nearby targets' and i'd like to try it and see how it goes.

Even to those who think i'm not listening - your voices not going unheard. Thanks again for all of your posts, y'all.

EDIT BECAUSE DOUBLEPOSTING IS TACKY -


Catching this before i leave - i think something like this sounds really cool. I know i mentioned earlier that we were looking at +MS% in brush. What do people think about similar version?

'Rengar gains X movement speed while not visible to the enemy team (or out of combat). This bonus is doubled while Rengar is in brush.' ?

A lot of the bonetooth ideas specifically have been pretty interesting - Wav3break's heavy lifting is going to be focused on BTN, but i'll make sure to keep passing these along.
"Q"train on towers sounds so OP like you could take all towers split pushing in less then 1 minute.


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FaTh3r TiM3

Junior Member

07-18-2013

Is the additional move speed in bushes suppose to be a new passive or a buff to his current passive?


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Worst Mike NA

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!
I want bonetooth to build out of Hunter's Machete. Godlike idea.


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Chomey

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Hi guys, thanks for addressing all our concerns!

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/2...4#ranked-stats (Just so you know, I play a LOT of Rango)

1: The only way I am okay with bola being a skill shot is if it lands an AOE when it hits something. We already have enough issues catching the super mobiles (think Blue EZ or Ahri). We will literally get wrecked if it's a skill shot that can be blocked by minions... And we want the minions to still be able to be hit so we can long range cs when we're losing.

2) Bone Tooth out of Hunter's sounds awesome.

3) FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE DO NOT TELL PEOPLE WHEN WE ULT. All they have to do is run straight back to tower for 10 seconds, then we've just wasted our ultimate.

4) Keep up the great work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!


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Eleshakai

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anketh View Post
I love this idea, but you'll want to remove the part about the MS being removed by wards. Nerf the concept to account for this, if you have to, but if the Rengar player suddenly notices a drop in his movement speed, he'll know there's a ward there; there's only so many "good" locations for a ward, so it'd be easily counter-warded afterwards.
Anything that nerfs wards is probably healthy for the game in the long run.