Tristanta: Armor Pen or Crit Damage Runes

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MThreat

Junior Member

12-15-2009

Hey Guys,

I'm a huge Corki fan and I'm now just starting to play Tristana. I'm wondering if it is better to slot Armor Pen or Crit Damage Runes on Tristana, as most of the guides claim Crit Damage. However, many of the guides recommend armor pen for Corki so I'm wondering why the difference as they are both ranged carries.

Currently, my rune pages consists of red = armor pen, yellow/blue = mana regen and Quint = armor pen.

Is is simply preference? Armor pen allows for greater damage per hit and +crit damage runes allow for bigger hits less often. Armor pen seems more consisent. Am I wrong? Also, would you change my mana regen runes for something else? Does Tristana burn through mana as fast as Corki? Perhaps health runes instead?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Holypope

Senior Member

12-15-2009

just a little PSA on crit damage:

There are at least a 1/2 dozen posts showing that crit damage is a waste (mathematically). Get crit chance. Stop thinking about crit damage. The numbers don't work out. by the the time your crit chance is high enough to make crit damage worthwhile, your game will be 80-100% over.

as for the armor pen... I'd consider armor pen situational. Crits affect everyone you hit. Armor pen really only matters on tanks. Crit chance seems like a much more useful all-around build.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bavius

Junior Member

12-15-2009

Like most things in life, there are no absolutes. Crit chance is great early game when you have few crit items. Towards late game you'll want that crit damage. Armor pen is way too situational to be relied on, it won't hurt but it won't help as much as crit chance. Crit chance should make up most of your runes, if you feel you need more crit damage then try a mix of the two.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MThreat

Junior Member

12-15-2009

So Armor Pen is only good against tanks? Wouldnt high armor pen also eliminate all of the armo on softer characters making your shots even deadlier? Seems much more consisent and reliable than a crit chance or am I missing something?

Also, would you change my blue/yellow runes from mana regen for trist?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morzas

Senior Member

12-15-2009

In low-tier games, you want crit damage because your games last a long time and you can rice a massive amount of gold. In high-tier games, you want crit chance because the game usually ends quickly and you're not going to build that many items unless you get fed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MThreat

Junior Member

12-15-2009

But how does armor pen compare to crit chance? See my response above


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Admonished

Senior Member

12-15-2009

Personally i go atk speed runes on Trist. Lets me focus on damage item-wise. But i guess its more on how you wanna play your trist go crit if i wanna be more of a fighter but pure damage if you wanna melt towers faster than yi can.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

blackmoses

Senior Member

12-15-2009

this is all situational depending on how you play and what items you get when. If you're stacking crit chance in your items there is a point of deminishing returns. Now I wouldn't think that armor pen or magic pen wouldn't take you below 0. So unless you're targeting a tank a lot of armor pen is a waste. Also if you are targeting the tank wouldn't you get armor pen items? Maybe check out cooldown runes? In theory the faster you can use your offensive spells the more dps you put out. Especially since you aren't stacking cooldown items. If you plan on stacking crit chance items I would grab some crit damage runes, but if you're racing for an IE then that small percent of crit damage in your runes is a waste. However there is another part to this it's called your masteries. I like to stack my runes based on what masteries i'm going which in itself based on what champion i'm playing. stacking crit chance runes let's say gives you an extra 10% crit chance. Look at it from a mathmatical side that 10% isn't much, but if you also have the mastery for crit chance those together make a formidable combo early game.

Hope this helps you figure out your rune combo's based on your play style and item build. The key to being a good player is the ability to modify your build(s) based on opponent champions and your team combo.

Now we also can get into the fact that if you burn one champion down in a team fight and make it 5v4 you are also effectively reducing their over all dps as well. I guess the thing to remember is every little bit counts.



in all acutality I hope i'm not talking out my backside here.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nerdrage

Senior Member

12-15-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holypope View Post
just a little PSA on crit damage:

There are at least a 1/2 dozen posts showing that crit damage is a waste (mathematically). Get crit chance. Stop thinking about crit damage. The numbers don't work out. by the the time your crit chance is high enough to make crit damage worthwhile, your game will be 80-100% over.

as for the armor pen... I'd consider armor pen situational. Crits affect everyone you hit. Armor pen really only matters on tanks. Crit chance seems like a much more useful all-around build.
I'd like to see a single one of these that takes into account itemization. None of them do. Every one only looks at runes compared to runes, not runes compared to items. You can get crit chance in items easily.

having around 40% crit chance by the 15 minute mark is reasonable. Having about 60% crit chance with infinity edge by the 20 - 25 minute mark is reasonable. That's enough crit to make crit damage go out of the roof.


arpen is amazing too, though. I'd take that over anything other than crit chance, though it really does depend on the character and how you build them.

Also, I'm pretty sure Mpen and Arpen do go below 0. Not 100% sure, but I'm somewhat confident in that it does.

Arpen is also better against squishy targets rather than tanks, though Last Whisper is definitely a tank buster. Armor has diminishing returns, so as you get more of it, it benefits you less per point. Thus low armor targets lose more per armor than high armor targets.

Hope that makes some kind of sense.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

wildfire393

Senior Member

12-15-2009

Crit Chance is more effective than Crit Damage if your Crit Chance without runes is greater than 30-35%. If you regularly hit this marker early in the game, then Crit Damage runes are better.

However, Armor Penetration is not more effective against tanks. It is more effective against characters with low armor and in general more effective against everyone.

Here's an example calculation. Given the best possible situation for Crit Damage (100% crit chance), with a base damage of 100, a crit damage of 250%, and a target's armor of 30, the damage without runes is 192.31. With one crit damage mark, the damage is 194.22. With one Armor Penetration mark, the damage is 195.25. Using the same numbers against a target with 100 armor, the damage outputs are the same. Using the same numbers against a target with 200 armor, crit damage actually wins out.

However, the more armor pen runes you add, the higher their armor needs to be for crit damage to overtake Armor penetration (and remember, this is given the best possible situation for crit damage, 100% crit chance). With a full set of marks in either type, Armor Penetration still has the damage advantage at 100 armor.

Looking at a more reasonable crit rate (50%), Armor Penetration still has more damage output than Crit damage up to 190 Armor.


12