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Ap Janna = Best Janna?

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SoullessFire

Senior Member

11-26-2010

I've been getting Shurelya's Reverie a lot on Janna these days, tbh. It feels like a lot of people underestimate the use of it these days.


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Breakyourself

Member

11-26-2010

LOL at you guys saying not getting neough money, if your playing her right you know she is the assist queen, i play pure ap, owns all other, if your good you should beable to keep yourself alive no matter wut, always mejai's first cuz you will always get assists, unless your specially slow, if you cant stay alive with her ww, cc, ult throw back, or shield, and being one of the fastest chars in the game you need to diaf, btw last game i 2 shotted a kog end game, in teh same respect, full ap means you can basically heal your team from nothing to full life and better supporter overall


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Breakyourself

Member

11-26-2010

in the last 10 games i have 51kills/25 deaths/118 assists, 9 wins 1 loss


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Schokcha

Senior Member

11-27-2010

Quote:
Dominatius Maxim:
Hardly significant in the long run. The value of the shield late game is the AD (Which remains even when the defensive bonus is spent). And, if it costs 300 AP to add 100/second to the effectiveness of a spell, it's not worth stacking AP for that spell.

I can't count the times where even late game those few hundred hp made the difference between someone living and dying. I used to build her without any AP, too (didn't feel confident enough for Mejais), and there is a tangible difference. Its' case to case benefit is situational, of course, but that's also the case with other stats.


We don't talk about stacking AP, mind you, but I stand by the value of Mejais for her:
Quote:
It's not necessarily a bad buy, but there are things you need more, namely CDR, which it doesn't add until it's maxed out.

The thing with Mejais is that you should get it early if at all to get started on those stacks. That is the main reason for prioritizing it, not that AP is more valuable "point for point" than CDR (which it isn't). The enormous discount on AP you get on that item makes it worth the delay, imo.


Quote:
Having the attack speed does help for that.

Those are fringe benefits, though. Howling Gale and your shield already let you defend a lane on your own. And the window where you have already bought attack speed and are still in a phase of the game where you can solo push towers is extremely small at best.




Quote:
SoullessFire:
I've been getting Shurelya's Reverie a lot on Janna these days, tbh. It feels like a lot of people underestimate the use of it these days.

That's an item I've been meaning to try on her, too, I can see it working out. I just find myself playing mostly Lux recently^^


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Breakyourself

Member

11-27-2010

i always get sorc bewts and majai's first, looking at my averages, i tend to make 9100g a game on average, not sure how great that is but works for me, then go strait for zhonya's then its whateve after, i never get RoA, dont see the point, most the time i solo lane also when theres a jungler


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Smellis

Senior Member

11-27-2010

Quote:
Breakyourself:
LOL at you guys saying not getting neough money, if your playing her right you know she is the assist queen, i play pure ap, owns all other, if your good you should beable to keep yourself alive no matter wut, always mejai's first cuz you will always get assists, unless your specially slow, if you cant stay alive with her ww, cc, ult throw back, or shield, and being one of the fastest chars in the game you need to diaf, btw last game i 2 shotted a kog end game, in teh same respect, full ap means you can basically heal your team from nothing to full life and better supporter overall


Right...

Assists dont give that much gold, they give you 150 gold on a normal kill IF you did a significant portion of the victims life. Even as pure ap janna your damage isn't gonna add up to much cause in the end you have to let Q charge up to full for it to make a dent. And using W is a somewhat lengthy cooldown thats usable on one person. So... if you're telling me you can burst people down with janna's 2 damage spells i'll have to call you a liar.

The difference between pure ap janna and the support janna is which one lives longer and does their actual job of saving people's asses. AP janna WILL die if she gets hit with any amount of CC. You're building no survival and relying on her spell's damage and numbers to save you. Instead if you focus on your own survival and rely on your lower cool down spells you can save yourself and others more often than you could with AP.

I see people listing janna's ult for its healing. Well let me tell you something for when you fight people who are not ******ed. Janna's ult is not specifically for the healing, good players will immediately train you in an attempt to interrupt it and most of the time succed. So you rarely get to let it run its full duration. Don't get me wrong the heal is nice but you can't count on it. Janna is a preventitive support, she doesn't recover damage she prevents it. When you learn that the better you'll get.

People seem to be going back and forth on this particular subject about her AP. AGAIN, ap on pure support janna is good. Games typically dont last long enough for her to actually build some is the problem. If the game goes 50 minutes then i'd say its very likely for a support janna to build some kind of AP due to how much damage is gonna be thrown around.


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Zirze

Member

11-27-2010

If they don't have big/any burst/stuns in the duo lane, start w/ the sapphire crystal and 2 health pots, but otherwise start with a doran's ring. After that get a Mejai's. If you're playing her properly, either you die and your allies pick up 3 kills, or you drop your abilities and end up getting 3 assists. Either way, it just ends up being a **** good item on her. After that, just pick up what you think you need, but you could not buy any other items the whole game and be fine.
Oh yeah, pick up Merc Treads when necessary (if they have lots of stuns, the earlier the better.)
Also, for the people who say she just needs cdr, it's a pretty good idea. Even if you have 300 ap, you still won't be the primary damage dealer on your team. So, dropping a 200 point shield every 6 seconds is going to be better than dropping a 450 point shield every 9 seconds. But the best part about janna is you can have someone slowed pretty seriously most of the time, give an ad an extra 50 damage, have a knockup that can hit multiple people, and you have a save your teams ass ability. It's more important to be continually disrupting the other teams attacks and abilities, than to be able to pump out, or stop a little more damage.


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Subdue

Senior Member

11-27-2010

Quote:
I can't count the times where even late game those few hundred hp made the difference between someone living and dying. I used to build her without any AP, too (didn't feel confident enough for Mejais), and there is a tangible difference. Its' case to case benefit is situational, of course, but that's also the case with other stats.


We don't talk about stacking AP, mind you, but I stand by the value of Mejais for her:


If you agree that the value of her spells is largely their secondary effects (knockup, slow, knockback, AD) then you have to agree that frequency of recast is more important than increasing the primary effects (damage/heal/shield). If that's the case (which it is), then your first goal should be to max out your CDR. The most efficient way to accomplish this is Nashor's Tooth (though Frozen Heart is a close second). Delaying your CDR makes you overall LESS useful in team fights.

Now, compare Mejai's to Fiendish Codex (which builds into Nashor's). They cost roughly the same amount, but Fiendish Codex comes with a hefty 10% CDR and mana regen, as well as 5 more base AP. That's what you're delaying when you grab Mejai's early. On the other hand, if you grab it late, it's significantly less useful.

You may be right about not being to count the times when a little more life saved someone, but I'd venture to say that there have been countless more times that the additional couple hundred life didn't make a difference at all in how effective you were at saving someone, or wasn't enough to save them anyway.

Quote:
Those are fringe benefits, though. Howling Gale and your shield already let you defend a lane on your own. And the window where you have already bought attack speed and are still in a phase of the game where you can solo push towers is extremely small at best.


Nashor's Tooth adds AP/Mana Regen compared to Frozen Heart's Armor/Slow/Mana. My thoughts on Frozen Heart are, you should be out of combat most of the fight, so the armor is nothing particularly useful, and the slow won't be close enough to take effect. The bulk mana is just about as effective as the mana regen on Nashor's. The additional AP is a bit more useful than the two negligible mods on Frozen Heart, and the Attack Speed is just icing on the cake. If you like Frozen Heart more, then go for it.

I think Shurelya's may be viable, but it only gives 15% CDR, which means you'd need another source of CDR to cap out. It also costs more than Soul Shroud, which gives stronger mods. Taking them two of them together (which would free up your Glyphs for something else) may be an option, especially since you can open with an early philosopher stone, but that gives you a weaker start than the Doran Ring -> Boots -> Fiendish Codex start, at least until your Philosopher Stone catches up. I'll give this setup a few runs to see if it's as effective.


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Breakyourself

Member

11-27-2010

smellis lol,

lets see, no lie i can 2 shot certain players end game given the right stats, lets see, 9/0/21 of course on masteries, 54 ap at 18, 7.6 magic pen, so your telling me with zhonya's/ majai's 20 stacks, which i usually get every game that doesnt end fast, lich bane, void staff, sorc boots, and abysall septor i cant possibly 2shot? please you really dont know how much damage that is do you, right now i have a 65% win ratio with janna out of 97 ranked games with her and prob 300 normal game wins with her, trust me i know wut shes able to do


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Sophyne

Senior Member

11-27-2010

Quote:
Breakyourself:
smellis lol,

lets see, no lie i can 2 shot certain players end game given the right stats, lets see, 9/0/21 of course on masteries, 54 ap at 18, 7.6 magic pen, so your telling me with zhonya's/ majai's 20 stacks, which i usually get every game that doesnt end fast, lich bane, void staff, sorc boots, and abysall septor i cant possibly 2shot? please you really dont know how much damage that is do you, right now i have a 65% win ratio with janna out of 97 ranked games with her and prob 300 normal game wins with her, trust me i know wut shes able to do


That isn't really Janna that's doing all that though, that's the Lich Bane. >_>
And you need a ton of AP to make the most of it and that most likely won't happen till mid-late game. Janna wants auras and CDR first to support her team, since she IS a support champ.