What TT needs to make adc's viable

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OnlyBotLane

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Senior Member

07-08-2013

AD is fine. Just the ****ty ad carries like ashe aren't. And that's more a problem with the champs themselves rather than the map.


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Eagle Orion

Senior Member

07-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyBotLane View Post
AD is fine. Just the ****ty ad carries like ashe aren't. And that's more a problem with the champs themselves rather than the map.
I'm seeing a huge variety of opinions here:

Me: ADC's work in 3s with good coordination, but not otherwise
I Am Rehiya: ADC's are totally unviable in 3s
Lachrimae: ADC's seem to be okay in 3s
The Anarchit3ct: ADC's never have any problems whatsoever in 3s
Rabbitsuit: ADC's are apocolyptically OP in 5s by design and 3s is hanging on for its life
Tobaco: ADC's are standard in 3s. And so is everything else. So whatever.
Gabriel Logan: ADC's destroy everyone in every situation always
OnlyBotLane: Ashe sucks.

*sigh* I should have posted a poll. Then this would have been less complicated.


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Dangerous Music

Senior Member

07-08-2013

if you change tt... change it back to season 2 TT


don't cater to these crybaby ****nuggets that want to whine so they can play draven on TT(who is good on TT anyways)


the meta is fine, it's fun, it involves more teamwork than everyone peeling for the adc



btw sivir and quinn.... OP AS **** ON TT


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Dangerous Music

Senior Member

07-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Orion View Post
I'm seeing a huge variety of opinions here:

Me: ADC's work in 3s with good coordination, but not otherwise
I Am Rehiya: ADC's are totally unviable in 3s
Lachrimae: ADC's seem to be okay in 3s
The Anarchit3ct: ADC's never have any problems whatsoever in 3s
Rabbitsuit: ADC's are apocolyptically OP in 5s by design and 3s is hanging on for its life
Tobaco: ADC's are standard in 3s. And so is everything else. So whatever.
Gabriel Logan: ADC's destroy everyone in every situation always
OnlyBotLane: Ashe sucks.

*sigh* I should have posted a poll. Then this would have been less complicated.
the only logical answer since there are so many opinions than is that it depends on the player, people obviously do well with adcs

some people suck

TT is meant to be a different map, and meant to be played differently


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Eagle Orion

Senior Member

07-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous Music View Post
the only logical answer since there are so many opinions than is that it depends on the player, people obviously do well with adcs

some people suck

TT is meant to be a different map, and meant to be played differently
No, the only logical answer is that I needed a poll. There can only be ONE opinion! And by one, I mean two precisely. Honestly, don't you know anything about politics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous Music View Post
don't cater to these crybaby ****nuggets that want to whine so they can play draven on TT(who is good on TT anyways)

Hi, I'm Corki, and I approve this message.
Hey hey HEY! Don't be raggin' on nuggets! I like nuggets! They're tasty, crunchy, and you can get 5 for only 99 cents.


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Mavrik V

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Senior Member

07-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Orion View Post
You sound like someone who's just not very good at laning against adc's. Of course ranged champs are gonna have a major early game lane advantage against what are usually melee champs. Especially ranged with high mobility. Kennen can be really obnoxious to several top lane champs early game. And not because he's an adc. A teemo played right can do the same. Watching him lane against a Singed, when he knows what he's doing, is always funny. And guess what? Those aren't adc's. I've had to go on the defensive MANY times against ranged champs, but that never put me so far behind that it caused all the problems you're complaining about. If you're getting pushed out of lane that much by adc's, it's because you're not playing that well.

Your claim that they tend to win against bruisers late game is also pretty absurd. I can't remember the last time I COULDN'T blow up an adc with a standard mage or top lane champ. The only way an adc can keep from getting blown up, is to kite or have plenty of peel... and for the other team to not have a counterstrategy for that. ADC's are not overpowered. They are just what their name is SUPPOSE to imply. They are CARRIES. They CARRY their team in fights. Why? Because they're suppose to do stupid amounts of damage. But the disadvantage is they are EXTREMELY easy to kill. It requires the coordination of an entire team for an adc to be useful half the time. The only exceptions to this is primarily melee adc's, who have more built in damage and sustain than ranged carries.

That is not overpowered. That is just what a carry is suppose to be.
No offense, but you're only Silver 4 after over 100 ranked 3v3 games played. Your opinion is hardly unbiased nor proficiently educated. I suggest watching some ranked streams of Challenger games and learning a bit before you continue to tirade. Ezreal and Vayne are common picks in Diamond level and above. There are 2 Challenger teams that played Ezreal in literally every one of their games and were undefeated or close to undefeated.

Are all ADCs viable, obviously not, but the ones that are are more than fine; the same can be said for any champion in any role.


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Eagle Orion

Senior Member

07-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Logan View Post
No offense, but you're only Silver 4 after over 100 ranked 3v3 games played. Your opinion is hardly unbiased nor proficiently educated. I suggest watching some ranked streams of Challenger games and learning a bit before you continue to tirade. Ezreal and Vayne are common picks in Diamond level and above. There are 2 Challenger teams that played Ezreal in literally every one of their games and were undefeated or close to undefeated.

Are all ADCs viable, obviously not, but the ones that are are more than fine; the same can be said for any champion in any role.
No offense, but I haven't played 100 ranked 3s games. I've played SIX, TOTAL. Some people play more than just 3s ranked, unlike you, for the rec. You're thinking of my solo/duo queue. You have a lot more experienced to go from in 3s ranked than I do, and you know what 3s ranked is like in Gold. But that just solidifies one of my PREVIOUS points. Anybody playing 3s ranked isn't sauntering into ranked with a couple of randoms. They are a team. They coordinate with each other based on plenty of experience working together. And when that happens, adc's can be OP. And people who've SEEN that upper ranked team coordination, like you, know what an adc can do in those situations specifically. A LOT. Do I have to quote myself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Orion View Post
But what does that say about adc's in standard matchmaking? Can they hold their own with random teammates, like bruisers can? I wouldn't say so. But that in itself doesn't call for a rework, when well-thought-out teams can make adc's extremely op in 3s. This creates a dilemma.


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Rabbitsuit

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Senior Member

07-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Orion View Post
Your points are great, but I don't know why you quoted FalconPaw. He's one of those people I WOULDN'T want defending any of my opinions. It would be embarrassing. He just sounds like another whiner, moaning the moment one of his fav champs gets a nerf. I've had some of my favorite champs get some pretty hard nerfs. Sej and Akali come to mind. And honestly, I still think those nerfs were logical. I don't go crying on the forums just because I liked them. Nasus is still great, and what did he get before the nerf? Oh yeah, a bunch of buffs. Malph is still permabanned half the time. Assassins still do just fine.

Seriously, is he really gonna complain about the Nasus wither? Let's see, the attack speed slow on it was basically a Frozen Heart on crack. It lasts for 5 seconds, and with cdr, it has about a 6.6 second cd. A second and a half after it ends, he can already use it again with cdr (all he needs for capped cdr is a visage and a frozen heart. Both of which would be great on Nasus.) Before, it was 35% attack speed slow, increasing to 90%. NINETY. If he DID build a frozen heart, then he could basically disable an adc indefinitely just by breathing on them. That is absurd, and clearly a problem. It needed a nerf. Period. If the guy doesn't like the fact that certain champs can't crush entire classes of other champs by default without even trying, he's ridiculous

BTW, who did the Yorick tend to ult? Here's what I'm thinking: It's really hard to kill either Nunu or Yorick, so they'd go for Vayne. But both Yorick and Nunu can easily be butts to any team chasing their carry, and Vayne herself is great at mobility and obstructive cc. And even if Vayne DOES get caught, if Yorick ults her, Vayne ALSO becomes a butt. All that boils down to: butt teams for the win. I've found the carries that are total bosses in 3s have a really well thought out team comp. You can tell the people are running together, because the coordination suggests a pretty longstanding strategy.

But what does that say about adc's in standard matchmaking? Can they hold their own with random teammates, like bruisers can? I wouldn't say so. But that in itself doesn't call for a rework, when well-thought-out teams can make adc's extremely op in 3s. This creates a dilemma.
Wish I could return the courtesy and say your points are also great, but frankly, I don't even see an argument anymore. You believe ADCs are viable and don't see reworks as a possible solution.

Why not quote that user and why should I be embarrassed? I don't know who he or she is, but given that the topic appeared on (the Riot Red Tracker and) more than one website discussing ADCs and their affect on the game is there any reason not to quote the main post of that topic?

Disregarding his or her or anybody else that shares the same opinion based solely on character is a logical fallacy in addition to making any association with it. Let's not forget that you're moving the goalposts as well from making ADCs viable to making ADCs viable in normal matchmaking and/or without building a team comp behind them.

How is Riot supposed to make your allies pick certain champions that you want them to pick? If you want a meta change, you need to raise awareness that it works, not that Riot needs to impose it. Slap the **** out of Sam (gl with that) with an ADC or three and you'll see folks try to copy the strategy.

Again, look at EU. They commonly run both jungler comps and hard carry comps. They've shown that it's viable in several matchups and it's more than common in normals there. Get more people eager to try them out and build comps around them. I agree with you that a rework isn't a solution, as it'd be based around normals/non-competitive play.

Your comments on the above nerfings to make ADCs more viable in 5s never discussed how 3s already took them into account before either. you just "REALLY?-ed" selective ones in the list. And you qualified in the first post that you didn't know of all the changes, and I certainly can't say that I do either. But here are what can I recall which helped make ADCs more viable on 3s thanks to the map changes already.

These are the direct/indirect nerfs to brusiers and buffs to ADCs off the top of my head from S2 to S3.

Nerf of Wartmog's, removal from TT and adding in a weaker substitute to make brusiers easier to kill.
Removal of Thornmail, allowing for ADCs to not have their lifesteal and damage hardcountered by a low cost item.
Creation of Mercurial Scimitar, allowing for QSS to be upgraded for damage on-top of its cleanse active.
Creation of Runic Bulwark, allowing for more defense to be received by aura.
Creation of Locket of the Iron Solari, allowing for more defense to be received by aura.
Creation of Ichor of Rage, to increase the siege ability of ADCs earlier on and later in the game by combining two of the former elixirs in one totaling over 2500 worth of stats for 500g.
Nerf of Omen, to weaker brusiers
Nerf of Frozen Heart, to weaker brusiers
Rework of Blade of the Ruin King, to favor use by ADCs over bruisers.
Passive increased gold gain on TT, to grant ADCs more gold earlier on.

3s has never been more welcoming to ADCs. It's to the point where the challenger player Alaric even jungles Ezreal on the map. Lucian's kit was just released and already fear facing him on this map.

And what is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Orion View Post
Me: ADC's work in 3s with good coordination, but not otherwise
I Am Rehiya: ADC's are totally unviable in 3s
Lachrimae: ADC's seem to be okay in 3s
The Anarchit3ct: ADC's never have any problems whatsoever in 3s
Rabbitsuit: ADC's are apocolyptically OP in 5s by design and 3s is hanging on for its life
Tobaco: ADC's are standard in 3s. And so is everything else. So whatever.
Gabriel Logan: ADC's destroy everyone in every situation always
OnlyBotLane: Ashe sucks.

*sigh* I should have posted a poll. Then this would have been less complicated.
While I'm glad you now believe ADCs are viable without simply never falling behind or having two teammates doing alright, either I didn't explain myself well enough or you might want to reread my post.

It wasn't implying that ADCs are OP by design. It's that balances already favor ADCs, they are already viable in 3s and not every map needs to cater solely to them.


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I Know Holly

Junior Member

07-09-2013

you guys need to stop qqing adc is fine on TT if the play with proper positioning and you have a team comp built around it my team usually runs an adc top with a jungle that can peel like hell and we climbed to gold almost plat in a couple days you just have to have good map awareness and team communication


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OnlyBotLane

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Senior Member

07-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Orion View Post
I'm seeing a huge variety of opinions here:

Me: ADC's work in 3s with good coordination, but not otherwise
I Am Rehiya: ADC's are totally unviable in 3s
Lachrimae: ADC's seem to be okay in 3s
The Anarchit3ct: ADC's never have any problems whatsoever in 3s
Rabbitsuit: ADC's are apocolyptically OP in 5s by design and 3s is hanging on for its life
Tobaco: ADC's are standard in 3s. And so is everything else. So whatever.
Gabriel Logan: ADC's destroy everyone in every situation always
OnlyBotLane: Ashe sucks.

*sigh* I should have posted a poll. Then this would have been less complicated.
Pro tip. The meta game for 3s is less developed and the people below diamond know much less about it than those above on the map. Asking peoples opinions is pointless. It is like asking a bronze 5 about balance on SR.


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