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Wits End?

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Twilexia

Senior Member

11-24-2010

I have NEVER, ever seen this item ever be used. I have seen people use often joked about items like Malady and Tiamat, but never, ever, seen Wits End being used. Can anyone give me an indication what situation to use this item, and which champions 2 use it on?


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

11-24-2010

Champions who benifit from AS builds will get a lot of use out of Wit's End if the enemy has mostly mana using champions. I have grabbed it on Kayle in the past, and also think it may scale very well with Irelia's active "true damage" ability, "IF" the 42 mana burn damage is indeed tru damage and not magical as has often been claimed on these forums. I have not personally tested to see however, but essentially it would put her late game true damage above 100 per swing as long as the enemy had mana to burn.

Someone please verify this with proof...as in a screen shot or a patch note. It has long been claimed but never proven one way or another as far as I have been able to tell.


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Joru

Senior Member

11-24-2010

I'm not really an expert on the subject, but for Wit's End to be a good buy, it seems like all (or at least most) of the following need to be true:

-Stacking attack speed helps you more than other stats.
-Every enemy champion uses mana.
-You want magic resist.
-You buy zero crit (true damage can't crit).
-You have no percent-based damage boosters (true damage can't be boosted).
-You have no abilities that scale based on attack damage.
-Few or no enemy champions are stacking armor/you already own Last Whisper and still want more attack speed.
-You or somebody else already owns Stark's Fervor, or you don't care about lifesteal and nobody else on your team values attack speed.

When do those stars ever align? For a Mundo who can't afford Phantom Dancer against a mage-heavy team which doesn't buy any armor, maybe? I guess the bottom line is that Last Whisper and Stark's Fervor are both usually better ways to get attack speed on a comparable budget (after which point almost anybody wants attack damage or crit instead of even more attack speed), and most autoattackers either buy Infinity Edge (which has no synergy with Wit's End's non-critting true damage) or need real attack damage to scale their abilities (Kayle's passive and Q's damage-boost debuff, Irelia's Q and R, etc.).


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SynergyDreamer

Senior Member

11-24-2010

The only reason I don't buy it is because of there being at the least 1 CD based character. Even if most of the enemies are magic based, if there's a Mordekaiser or Shen then I'm very very hesitant to buy it, even if I want the damage, AS, and magic resist.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

11-24-2010

Quote:
Joru:

When do those stars ever align?


Xin Zhao, but then you'd be trading your sword of the divine out for it (and giving up the activated 30 armor pen and dodge ignore).

I can't think of anyone else who'd get a lot out of it. And even for Xin, you'd not really benefit much from it (since Wit's End is magic damage...you'd end up slightly higher dps on mana champs than with sotd, but you make that up easily with the activated portion). Wit's End is only truly useful for neutralising low mana pool champs that still need their mana to be of any use. But then, if you're already hitting them, chances are they'll have blown all their spells before you finish remioving all their mana.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

11-25-2010

IDK, in the early game when its possible to get it...a champ with a low mana pool can easily be poked down to nothing with a champ like Kog, Ashe, or Trist...I have seen it happen. Like I said before, I have also had success with it on Kayle, who meets most of those requirements and has a nice ranged/melee attack.

Other than that and the possible synergy with Irelia's active, IDK who else it could be used for regularly. It's very much a niche item on even its best champ choice, and with the tanky garen/morde/shen/mundo metagame we see right now...not to mention ken, kat, and a bunch of others non-mana users...it will be hard to find a matchup where it shines very often.


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JohnCataldo

Senior Member

11-25-2010

I think many players here aren't thinking about this quite correctly. It's not a matter of who you use it on (much), it's more who you use it against. Sure, obviously it goes on attack speed champions of various kinds (possibly TF, Kogmaw, Twitch, Trist, Warwick maybe, etc.) But just as obviously it's not an automatic buy every game (almost no item is).

The key to making Wit's End worthwhile is using it when you'd really like to run enemies out of mana (and it's quite possible to make that happen in many fights with a high attack speed champion).

- Many champions can't contribute significantly to a fight without mana (which means even if you aren't extra damaging them because their pool is empty, that's still great and you are probably winning the fight). Consider most AP champions, especially Karthus, Anivia, etc. Obviously this isn't a magical answer that makes them out of mana instantly, but enemies will often show up to a fight without full mana anyway. (In an ideal world, of course, you kill someone before they'd run out of mana, but this isn't an ideal world is it?)

- A number of escape skills use mana. If Shaco is low on mana, he can't Deceive and run away. Deceive is fairly expensive, too. Kassadin, Tristana, etc.

- If you are playing against a strong tank-mage who uses mana, and you are already running something like Bloodrazor, Wit's End can be a fantastic way to punch through. This isn't a really big category, but includes tank/mage hybrids like Singed or Gragas. Both tend to high health and high mana pools and are greatly weakened by losing mana, and upping attack speed on your Bloodrazor is already great against them. (Some people would say Last Whisper is always better, but I suspect most people haven't tried WE.) Obviously you don't want to explicitly build to take out enemy tanks, but combined with other enemies who hate WE, or multiple enemy tanks or a generally tanky enemy team (pretty common!), Bloodrazor + attack speed isn't an uncommon choice anyway. It's just a matter of whether you want Stark's, Last Whisper, Sword of the Divine, etc. etc. etc.

It's a bit unfortunate that the niche where WIt's End works out isn't that large. I'm certianly not saying you should get it in most games. But it does have it's place. (In general, the problem is that there's so many good attack speed items, not that Wit's End is terrible. It just has a lot of solid competition.)


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Beverak

Senior Member

11-26-2010

Eh getting a lot of hit on most of those squishies doesn't seem very likely.

To me it seems best against blitz/rammus/galio/amumu/etc who are gonna try and tank and use mana. Them and possibly those champs that have extremely low mana pools nad run out easily like sion or panth. But then again hitting them enough to make a difference is questionable.

Since you need to hit them A lot I could see it being useful on someone like Udyr who can build tanky, toss that on and with tiger stance drain someone lightning fast.


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Destabilizator

Recruiter

11-26-2010

Biggest problem of Wit's End is, that by the time you get it, champs who rely on mana will have already big mana pools, paired with regen and some MR, negating that tiny dmg of it's procs. Yes, it's magic dmg and it's reduced by MR.
There's no reason at all to buy Wit's End, when you have Hexdrinker as option.


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HeLLStaR3

Member

11-26-2010

I like it on TF or WW with enemies that mostly use mana. If they dont, i will grab a SOTD.


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