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Let's talk about Yorick

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nascarfan38124

Junior Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
Having the ghouls get stronger over time is interesting. I'll explore in that space. It also means a newly spawned ghoul is less of a threat than an older ghoul.


Wouldnt this make the yorick player feel like they are weaker if they dont take the time to farm up the ghouls beforehand? Unlesss its tuned in such a way so that he is balanced around only having half power ghouls he will always feel like mechanics and farm is holding him back, like he has a wind up time. And if he is balanced that way,then he will be super strong if left alone to farm up


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PØÐ

Junior Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
nascarfan38124:
Wouldnt this make the yorick player feel like they are weaker if they dont take the time to farm up the ghouls beforehand? Unlesss its tuned in such a way so that he is balanced around only having half power ghouls he will always feel like mechanics and farm is holding him back, like he has a wind up time. And if he is balanced that way,then he will be super strong if left alone to farm up


Ah but that would be the inherent balance and focal point of Yorick's themed abilities. It's what will make him feel and play differently than other champions who are just ridiculously strong without having to do anything but build items (Draven, Darius).

To give any champion such as Yorick so much utility and potential as these newer kits that Riot is paving the future with should always come at a price. Great power, great potential, and greater player mechanics required. Basically, you should need to think more and be more engaged with a more complex champion kit that requires you to be awake and on top of your game.

I can definitely see your cause for concern. Having to farm up minions to become more powerful has not always worked great in other champs (Nasus, Veigar). With Veigar it's not too bad. With Nasus I feel like I spend the game doing nothing but farming just to be relevant.

This is why I suggest that Riot tries to balance this potential problem by giving Yorick a ton of utility while also making ghouls (his resource cost) easy but not free to obtain. The overview of a Yorick rework like I propose here:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...4#post40063484 (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40063484#post40063484)

is that Yorick will need to make tactical decisions about burning up his ghoul bank now or conserving his main resource for more important future conflicts later. All of these decisions will play into his overall strategy requiring him to pick and choose his battles as opposed to being an overpowered champ that can go all in 24/7 who will simply get nerfed into the ground in several consecutive patches.

This also effects the counterplay strategies to this kind of ghoul based Yorick. The enemy team will need to make an active effort to burn down Yorick's ghouls knowing that a Yorick who has say half of his ghouls buffing and protecting him is not nearly the same threat as a Yorick with his full ghoul army of 9. Again, if Yorick stays in the fight, he is going to lose ghouls at a quicker rate burning through his ghoul supply faster.

Check out my proposed rework if you haven't:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...4#post40063484 (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40063484#post40063484)

In it I suggest that Yorick receives a bank to store his farmed kills in that increases depending on the size of the unit killed. (basic lane minions give +1, large minions and monsters giving +3, all the way up to Champs and assists giving +5)

Also, giving Yorick a quick ability to instantly raise his ghoul army in a hurry but at a long cooldown cost gives Yorick a great tactical ability and way to deal with those situations when he finds himself suddenly without his undead army on the field. I don't think I was the only person to suggest this, but I am going to keep asking for this one.


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Darthreaper08

Junior Member

07-26-2013

Like Kwokkers I have came late into this thread and have only read Xelnaths threads.
I main youric for twisted tree line and dimonon when I play them.
Just as a side note when I play yorick my early game consist of a tear yes but my build lets me scale into late game fights. I don't play summers rift I find that game type to be really annoying. I currently play to be an ad carry yorick it works wonderful so that mean I am really busrty but can take some damage q dose 1/4 health on hit to most people late game but I can still be killed. In fact I go in ult myself when I am about half health and purposefully die just to wreak untold havoc this is what I find the most fun about him.
I was wondering if we could get an update on what you are thinking for tools is it still like developer post 101 or have you tweaked it more.
I would also like to point out that yorick (and all the other champs are played in other game types) so if you have things like large jungle monsters killed give him souls then that would limit him in say aram or dominion. I would like to point that out just because I feel like that idea seams to get forgotten along the way sometimes but that may just be me.
I am a fan of the current devoper post 101 with some of the tweak ideas that have been posted after thanks for trying to make this a great new change and not just nerf to hell.
As a side note can we also get a new skin or two for yorick when all of this is said and done?


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PØÐ

Junior Member

07-26-2013

Quote:
Darthreaper08:

I would also like to point out that yorick (and all the other champs are played in other game types) so if you have things like large jungle monsters killed give him souls then that would limit him in say aram or dominion. I would like to point that out just because I feel like that idea seams to get forgotten along the way sometimes but that may just be me.
I am a fan of the current devoper post 101 with some of the tweak ideas that have been posted after thanks for trying to make this a great new change and not just nerf to hell.
As a side note can we also get a new skin or two for yorick when all of this is said and done?


Darthreaper: I feel that you have a very valid point with regard to Yorick being potentially weaker in aram or dominion without the same supply of available minions and monsters to farm.

That being said, it wouldn't be hard to balance the final numbers to make available minions count for more +2 instead of +1 or to even have Yorick just auto-generate ghouls over time as an example to make up for this weaknesss on other game modes.

Here is the thing though... Veigar and Nasus clearly have similar problems both being champions that rely on being able to farm to build up their stats. Yet, I don't see Riot going out of their way to resolve this. I'm sure Riot cares, but I don't think that fixing these unorthodox kits for other modes is a priority for them.

I would like to see minor adjustments made if possible to all 3 (Nasus, Veigar, Yorick) for alternate game modes, but most of a new reworked game play style should be focused on Summoner's Rift as that is where most of the community plays along with the pro scene.

A new Yorick skin would be awesome.... But what would it be? Have an idea? Let us hear it!


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Darthreaper08

Junior Member

07-26-2013

Quote:
PØÐ:
Darthreaper: I feel that you have a very valid point with regard to Yorick being potentially weaker in aram or dominion without the same supply of available minions and monsters to farm.

That being said, it wouldn't be hard to balance the final numbers to make available minions count for more +2 instead of +1 or to even have Yorick just auto-generate ghouls over time as an example to make up for this weaknesss on other game modes.

Here is the thing though... Veigar and Nasus clearly have similar problems both being champions that rely on being able to farm to build up their stats. Yet, I don't see Riot going out of their way to resolve this. I'm sure Riot cares, but I don't think that fixing these unorthodox kits for other modes is a priority for them.

I would like to see minor adjustments made if possible to all 3 (Nasus, Veigar, Yorick) for alternate game modes, but most of a new reworked game play style should be focused on Summoner's Rift as that is where most of the community plays along with the pro scene.

A new Yorick skin would be awesome.... But what would it be? Have an idea? Let us hear it!


I do realize that there other champs that would have problems and I do realize that mainly summers rift is the focus but I figured while in the rework stage it would be easier to fix then in a micro patch or some thing.
I was thinking a full metal or a Foust from shaman king kind of thing or something like this http://wallpapers-hq.ru/en/necromancer-with-ball-lightning-1280-x-1024/


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Darthreaper08

Junior Member

07-28-2013

OMG POD i just went back and read your original post that was a lot of text but that would really fix the problem of having the best of both worlds man I wish i would have read that before I posted I like yours better. Though that may be because it seams way op but could easily work if numbers are balanced correctly.


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PØÐ

Junior Member

07-28-2013

Quote:
Darthreaper08:
I do realize that there other champs that would have problems and I do realize that mainly summers rift is the focus but I figured while in the rework stage it would be easier to fix then in a micro patch or some thing.
I was thinking a full metal or a Foust from shaman king kind of thing or something like this http://wallpapers-hq.ru/en/necromancer-with-ball-lightning-1280-x-1024/


Hey Darthreaper08,

I liked the link you posted!

Just a few comments on my part for your consideration. I think some adaptation to make it feel a little more Yoricky would need to be done to prevent people from confusing it as a Karthus skin.

Also, Riot seems to be very aware of Chinese censorship laws, and would need to have some kind of viable alternate design that doesn't use skulls. Yep, Chinese government is not a fan of skulls (or Pandas) in games. If you google the topic, you will find that Riot has shifted most if not all of their art assets already away from using skulls in the Chinese client software.

China is a big market for them. So, I can see why they would do it, and place consideration on whether future skins are viable in China without a lot of extra work.


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PØÐ

Junior Member

07-28-2013

Quote:
Darthreaper08:
OMG POD i just went back and read your original post that was a lot of text but that would really fix the problem of having the best of both worlds man I wish i would have read that before I posted I like yours better. Though that may be because it seams way op but could easily work if numbers are balanced correctly.


Wow, thanks for reading it! Aside from a few friends, I've received very little confirmation that anyone else has bothered to read my post! lol

I wish I could get a red to read and comment on it too, but I think they may have moved on from this thread and region for now. I think I saw them posting more recently in EUW.

There is just so much potential in this rework that I am getting excited. I hope that we can get a better Yorick out of all this community discussion no matter which route it takes.

If anyone out there would like to read my suggested Yorick rework, please go here:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...4#post40063484 (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40063484#post40063484)


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Darthreaper08

Junior Member

07-28-2013

Quote:
PØÐ:
Hey Darthreaper08,

I liked the link you posted!

Just a few comments on my part for your consideration. I think some adaptation to make it feel a little more Yoricky would need to be done to prevent people from confusing it as a Karthus skin.

Also, Riot seems to be very aware of Chinese censorship laws, and would need to have some kind of viable alternate design that doesn't use skulls. Yep, Chinese government is not a fan of skulls (or Pandas) in games. If you google the topic, you will find that Riot has shifted most if not all of their art assets already away from using skulls in the Chinese client software.

China is a big market for them. So, I can see why they would do it, and place consideration on whether future skins are viable in China without a lot of extra work.


ooo i didnt know that well then that makes life more difficult for a necromancer skin a full metal skin would be cool or a pre zombie yourik skin would be cool


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Apostyl

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Personally, I would like to see yorick as an AP bruiser with elise and maybe ryze being the really only two in current meta i would like to see another. If he was like an AP caster in lane that shifts into an uber tank that leads a horde into battle as you move to mid/late game. What if you had his ghouls damage scale on his AP stats instead of AD? i feel like ROA and maybe archangels staff(because of mana dependency) could make him a really fun/creative champ. There are just to many AD bruisers right now. No hate just an idea