Let's talk about Yorick

First Riot Post
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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Basic Theme:

Melee Bruiser who also has a lot of adds.

Attachment 721215
I like this idea. Its a more cohesive version of current Yorick.


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Dfenestrator

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axle the Beast View Post
Yorick was already used on rare occasions for jungling. I think making him more viable in the role is welcome.
Yeah, I'm not implying that he wasn't used there occasionally before, but a low cd move that does aoe damage and spawns multiple minions that can tank for him, combined with an as/lifesteal move for him and his minions, makes it more attractive than before.


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Rew

Junior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
Xelnath doesn't like the idea, he thinks it's buggy and hard to get best case scenario out of (which is when the ghost stays alive long enough to do damage, and then the person ghosted died JUST as it's about to run out for more damage)
Cheers Hellioning!


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IS1d6d3ffc5d25bf1bdf6f0

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulrau View Post
the new kit gives him a speed boost option.
His default kit has a speed boost too. In both instances it's a pretty weak one though. Like, it makes Udyr look hard to kite by comparison.


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Frequently

Senior Member

07-01-2013

If we're doing the "summon a lot of guys" ultimate, I'd really rather have the "a bunch of guys over time" version than the "fewer guys but all at once."

For one I'd enjoy the zone control, for two more is always more intimidating and interesting, but for three I'm afraid of using it and having them all be AoE'd down completely accidentally before they're even able to take their first unbreath.


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Thales

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS1d6d3ffc5d25bf1bdf6f0 View Post
If you don't have Hydras how can you deal with air units?
Amusingly, I feel Anivia would actually do a number on this incarnation of the kit.


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Spectre06

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Basic Theme:

Melee Bruiser who also has a lot of adds.

Attachment 721215
Don't like this kit at all in comparison to the previous version. Brings back the spammy feel and takes away a lot of the skill. I love the idea of a ghoul horde as an ult but leave it there. I don't want to feel like I'm just spamming skills to bring out more ghouls.


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NitroPenguinn

Junior Member

07-01-2013

Now that I've edited the post to actually function...

Other implementations of the "build up a swarm" mechanics have resulted in some very toxic gameplay. In an extreme example from an SC2 custom (star battle), this guy hangs back, and then charges forward with a swarm and 1-shots everyone. The toxicity can be seen in less extremes, though: If he's too reliant on a large swarm to do damage, he'll be vulnerable otherwise. And if he's not vulnerable when he's short on ghouls, then he'll be a complete monster when he has a lot of them.

Instead of building up a minion swarm, allow him to build up charges that allow him to revive his ghouls. Instead of 15 ghouls all dealing damage (or all getting wasted by AOE), you build up revive charges and send your 3 ghouls out in a steady stream, since you can revive them 15 times. A sustained onslaught.

This sustained damage syncs with a front line bruiser's fight style better than a sort of all-or-nothing horde you have to babysit.

Here's a kit I've thrown together based on this concept:

Name:  Yorick kit 5.jpg
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Kit Analysis
Boons:

  • This gives him a lot of tools, since he now has a moderate amount of CC.
  • He can go AP or AD, since he has a healthy mix of scaling for both.
  • He can even make good use of attack speed, since his Q's cooldown is reduced by autos, and the souls of his ultimate will also attack faster with AS items.
  • He's more skillful, with 3 skillshots now. (The reverse line shot "pull" Q, the line shot marker W, and the targeted area ultimate).
  • Being able to order his ghouls to guard an ally also allows keeps the "protector" play that many people like from the current yorick.
  • His spells focus on getting into the fight and disrupting, using his ghoul army to do enhance his play.

Concerns:
  • Life steal and % damage resistance buffs given by the Red and Green ghouls are functionally similiar. Perhaps its enough difference that Red has risk/reward in combat, since he must be attacking, and is a much better buff to give your glass cannon carries than % damage reduction.
  • The collecting souls mechanic feels uninspired. I like how we spend them, but maybe something more akin to Thresh's collection mechanics would be better, since that forces more risk (because, after all, he will be risking ghoul buffs if he gets close).
  • Is it "skillful" enough? Right now we have skillshots, saving allies with buffs, and the QW or EW combo to gapclose and life steal up.
  • And finally, perhaps the ultimate should interact with his gouls in some more direct way. As it is, the ghouls and spells do so much that I struggled to find a more direct interaction. Perhaps taking 3 seconds off the CD of all his spells for the duration of the ult? A more direct interaction may not be necessary, though. I do like, however, that it does not resurrect his ghouls, since it keep the ghoul-sniping counterplay more meaningful.

And some gameplay notes:[List][*]A yorick who has ulted can pace his shots to make his ult last about 50% longer than just spamming his souls.[*]The shorter cooldown he has on his spells, the more quickly Yorick can customize his passive buffs to what he wants (Such as 3 blue ghouls for 30% movement speed, or 4 red ghouls for lots of healing). Right now, the CDs are probably about 20% too high to maximize this. However, the spells offer a lot of CC, and to get the cooldown lower it may have to dilute the CC too much.[*]Right now its a little hard to chose what ghouls you have by your side when you're just spamming spells. Take the lee sin approach, where pressing it again is what has the ghoul stick to you.
Submitted for your consideration, Xelnath <3


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Axle the Beast

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiznazTM View Post
@Xelnath

Yorick is NOT a Necromancer, he's a GRAVEDIGGER. Please stop listening to these people wanting him to be a necromancer, if you ruin his kit I'm going to be severely upset.

It really seems like you're listening to the 50% that wants Yorick to be gutted instead of the people that actually play Yorick.
Actually, as someone who doesn't want him to be a necromancer, I like the current setup. It doubles his ghouls but bare changes their purpose. They mostly crowd him and defend him, functioning close to how it does on live. He can summon heaps more, but at best this is temporary. Most of the time he farms, acting like Nasus, while bashing people with his shovel and steroid (while keeping his slow and ranged harass). The ghouls, when they do attack, require his steroid (which would be wasted if he himself wasn't attacking too, since he can only heal from his own auto-attacks).

It encourages ghoul control, yes, and it preserves his ranged ghoul poking by allowing you to W people and send ghouls after them as a result. But for Yorick to do the bulk of his damage, avoid wasting his E's maximum potential, and to properly sustain, Yorick needs to rush in alongside the ghouls.

This kit perfectly preserves the balance of Yorick summoning but fighting alongside his summons in my view.


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Krimson62

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thales View Post
Amusingly, I feel Anivia would actually do a number on this incarnation of the kit.
this is the one thing i worry about with an ultimate like said now... champs like anivia and karthus who are pretty much immune to creeps and pets