Let's talk about Yorick

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aeaeros

Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementation View Post
I think League needs the necromancer with more ghoul commands. We need more champions that controls their own units, and we also have enough of these "strong melee fighters" that reworking Yorick into one would be a complete bore.

I feel like the necromancer is the best fit. Yorick is a dead dude with a shovel, a strong melee fighter isn't exactly the first that comes to mind. Plus being undead, I would kind of expect some necromancy from him.
I agree with this sentiment a lot.

We have TONS of bruisers, but we don't have Necromancers.

Fighters/Bruisers all feel really generic in League at the moment.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zanaz

Junior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
It seems like this is the major point of contention:

Is Yorick a melee fighter or a minion commander

Players who want a necromancer style of play want more ghoul commands.
Players who want a strong melee fighter want to ignore the ghouls.

Of these two categories, which one does League need more? Which one is the best "fit" for Yorick? I'll be discussing this more with coworkers tomorrow as well.
I was actually curious what your thoughts were on actually tethering Yorick's ghouls to Yorick.

Having Yorick's ghouls function like Pix on Lulu and modify his own attacks would reduce his oppressive range harass and shift alot of his power to Yorick himself.

My idea is to have Yorick gaining the ghoul as a modifier to his auto attacks similar to Pix for the duration.

The two big issues with Yorick in lane are his harass combined with his sustain, and this solves much the problem of his harass.

This would also solve him being a walking ultimate by let you shift power to his actual abilities with the lack of ranged harass that comes with them. Changing his W to a snare for example would give Yorick some utility that would be unjustifiable when his ghouls served as ranged poke.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Caveth

Senior Member

07-01-2013

I wrote up an idea for his remake (mostly for fun), but feel free to read through it for some ideas for his remake. I attached it as an image, but I'll also copy it below and explain my thoughts behind what I wrote in it.

I tried as much as I could to retain the feel of his abilities without keeping his uncounterable and annoying sides. I think his E ability in this kit idea could be different and better, but this is just one kit idea I had for him.

EDIT: Here's a tl;dr because there are a lot of other people with ideas for you to read through as well.

Passive: Self-resurrect from basic attacks on enemy champions. Long cooldown.
Q: Summons ghoul that speed buffs all ghouls+ yorick. Bonus damage on next basic attack.
W: Targeted Area summon ghouls on enemies in the area.
E: Summons ghoul at nearest enemy. Its attacks heal Yorick.
R: All other abilities have 1.5 second cooldowns (except passive). Can command ghouls to specific targets for duration.


***********************************************


*********OMEN OF DEATH (Passive)

Passive: A third consecutive attack against the same enemy champion within 3 seconds will grant him a Revenant that will encase him for 3 seconds; additional attacks will reset this duration. If he dies with the Revenant on him, the Revenant will be consumed and Yorick will be resurrected with 33(+1*lvl)% of his maximum health. The Revenant may not appear again for 180 seconds after consumed.

Cooldown (of Revenant): 180s

Ghouls: Ghouls summoned by Yorick’s abilities have 8 dots of health (basically, 8 life bars with 1 health each – it can survive up to 8 sources of damage regardless of how much damage is dealt to each life bar). When a ghoul attacks and with each second that passes, it loses one dot of health. The stats of ghouls are as follows:

Armor: 0
Magic Resistance: 0
Attack speed: .8
Range: 125
Attack Damage: Based on the Ability being used
Movement Speed: 300(+10*level)
Leash Range (How far a ghoul can travel before being teleported back to Yorick): 750


*********OMEN OF WAR (Q)

Active: Yorick summons a ghoul next to him that will grant Yorick and all of his ghouls 35% movement speed for 3 seconds and attack his targets for 20/40/60/80/100(+.5AD) physical damage each attack. Yorick’s next basic attack within 3 seconds will deal 30/60/90/120/150(+1.2AD) bonus physical damage.

Cooldown: 9/8/7/6/5s (After Movement Speed Bonus Ends)
Cost: 40 Mana



*********OMEN OF PESTILENCE (W)

Active: Ghouls stir in the ground at target area for .5 seconds and then emerge to immobilize enemies in the area for .5 seconds and deal 50/110/170/230/290(+.6AD) physical damage to them. A ghoul appears next to every enemy hit and will continue to attack them to slow them by 35% for 1 second with each attack.

Range: 400
Radius: 225
Cooldown: 12s
Cost: 75 Mana



*********OMEN OF FAMINE (E)

Active: Yorick summons a ghoul at the nearest enemy that will deal 60/90/120/150/180(+1.0AD) physical damage to them. The ghoul will then continue to attack that enemy for 30/60/90/120/150(+.35AD) physical damage each attack until its death, healing Yorick for 50% of its damage dealt. If its target dies, it will move onto the next closest enemy.

Range: 250
Cooldown: 9/8/7/6/5s
Cost: 80 Mana



*********UNHOLY COVENANT (R)

Active: For the next 6/7/8 seconds, all of Yorick’s other abilities have 1 second cooldowns. He may command his ghouls to attack specific targets or move to specified locations during this time.
Active 2: Command his ghouls to all attack target enemy or move to target location.

Cooldown: 60/50/40s
Cost: 150 Mana



***********************************************


*********THOUGHTS


OMEN OF DEATH thoughts: To retain the feel of the old ultimate in resurrecting someone, but also make sure it's guaranteed if you can skillfully fight; this is unlike his old ultimate, which may have been reduced to nothing if the target didn't die - and if the target did die, it was only a temporary resurrection.

OMEN OF WAR thoughts: Grant him the ability to reach his enemy so he doesn't have to fight behind his ghouls rather than with them. If he can hit his target, he deals extra damage. Additionally, he can use it to escape in sticky situations as well.

OMEN OF PESTILENCE thoughts: This adds counterplay to his W ability while retaining his feel. It takes time to trigger, but is also very powerful when it does actually trigger. It now immobilizes enemies when it appears - the ghouls summoned no longer do damage and instead only slow enemies; additionally, an enemy must have been caught in the area to be attacked by the ghouls - unlike before, where they would chase regardless.

OMEN OF FAMINE thoughts: This ability now summons instantly at the nearest enemy, meaning it can be blocked by minions. It also has a shorter range to make sure Yorick is getting close to his enemies like a fighter should do. Summoning it instantly at a nearby target retains the current feel of it in a way, but without it feeling uncounterable.

UNHOLY COVENANT thoughts: Yorick will feel much more like a fighter now with closer range spells, but he will also feel like a necromancer controlling an undead army. This ability will truly help Yorick fulfill both roles, with him getting close to his enemies to constantly summon his ghouls to destroy his enemies.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Yorick Remake Idea.jpg (279.5 KB, 21 views)

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Byakue1

Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Countering only existing at champion select is a value we frown upon highly here at Riot. You must have frequent windows to prove your greater skill over the opponent by juking, dodging, baiting and exploiting moments of vulnerability.

That allows you to have moments of small victory in lane. Sure, maybe you're a bruiser vs. elise, but you can still dodge that cocoon and survive the jungle gank. Those moments add up.
There will always be champions that are good picks against a champion and there will always be bad picks against a champion.

Take Twisted Fate, for example. He can't apply pressure to other lanes versus a champion that has good wave clear. He can apply pressure to other lanes versus a champion that has bad wave clear.

It's the same case for Yorick. He is weaker to some champions and stronger against others.

The counter play to Yorick's E is to walk into a brush. If he uses his W to get vision of you, that wastes more of his mana. Every champion is capable of walking into a brush.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

blindasleep

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Oh, it wasn't meant to be a channel. He digs a grave, then monsters rush out of it over time that he can control.
The ult would get QQ because of its nature and then you'll leash the spawned monsters to it, then everyone will just run out of range and it will be wasted as anything but a disengage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Covaxe

Senior Member

07-01-2013

What is the fantasy of playing Yorick?
I love everything about Yorick. Before League I played a little sotis (a SC2 arcade game) and my favorite character was an aberration that spawned little nearly mindless minions around him passively and could spawn more by casting abilities. His ultimate made all the minions go into a frenzy and chase down your selected target. Yorick's ghouls made me think of this character, I love having minions.

I also love being able to make a copy of another champion, Mordekaiser ghost is another of my favorite things in league. I like controlling an additional character.

And being able to revive people..even if it's only temporarily. I also like Zilean for this reason, there is no ignoring that you're helping your teammates when they come back because of one of these champion's ults.

What are the high moments of Yorick?
Chasing enemies thinking, "WHERE YOU GOING!? YOU'RE GOING TO THE GRAVEYARD!". Yorick's Q speeds him up and W slows them down. The only other tanky champion I enjoy and occasionally carry with is Hecarim (who happens to be another spooky champion).

What do you dislike most about playing Yorick?
I'm not sure if it's 100% Yorick's fault or just something that happens with top lane. I feel like I can't do anything until the late game and team fights. It's usually just farming all game long, an example is when I was laning against a Cho, we just stayed top lane all game farming and my team ended up winning the game pretty much entirely without me.

Part of why it's a farm fest is because I don't feel Yorick can kill the enemy top by himself, you get slowed or the enemy jumps away (or in the case of Jayce speeds himself up) and there is no catching them and if you manage to catch them you're unable to do enough damage. You ult yourself and get another you that is just as slow. I'm unable to catch enemies until late game, when I can chase them past their fallen turrets.

Edit: Another cool thing I like about Yorick is blocking things like Blitz, Elise and Jayce skillshots with ghouls. It's very satisfying.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Archadion

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Here's a new pitch based on some of the ideas in this thread.

Basic idea: Yorick is a close-range, melee bruiser. He can use his ghouls to gain ranged damage and harass, but only by putting them at risk.

I also mocked up what it would look like when 3 ghouls were protecting Yorick defensively.

(Image)

Edit: Updated to be all physical damage, as suggested.
I love the idea of Yorick's ghouls blocking damage. So if he uses them defensively, he's tankier, and if he uses them offensively, he's squishier to compensate. I like it. I'm also a fan of that new ultimate. A swarm of ghouls would be terrifying. One thing you'd need to keep in mind; would they do half damage to structures or be able to attack structures at all? If not, Yorick would become a terrifying split-pusher, with the ability to form a 23-minion wave to take down a turret. There are, however, a couple of points in that new mockup I'm confused about and a couple of points I'm not a fan of.

First, do Yorick's ghouls have autoattacks? And if so, are they ranged or melee? If they have autoattacks, it feels to me like you're just recreating the problem of Elise's spiderlings. Ooh. Have you considered some sort of mirroring system, so each ghoul takes 10% of the damage for Yorick, while Yorick takes 10% of the damage the ghoul takes? That would allow players to autoattack/focus Yorick's ghouls without completely ignoring him.

Second, there doesn't seem to be much of a cost between defensive and offensive uses of the ghouls, due to the alt+right click mechanic. Yorick can just send his ghouls out with alt+right click, then the moment he gets attacked, he alt+right clicks himself and gets the defensive bonuses. There's no ability cost tied to it, compared to a champion like Orianna who needs to cast a 60-mana spell to Protect herself and have her ball ready to use the AoE damage/slowing spell.

Finally, the "leaping over" his target on his Q doesn't make much sense to me. Yorick is big and bulky, made to hit you in the face with a shovel, not do an acrobatic pirouette over your head. That sounds more like a Jax move than a Yorick one.

Just my two cents. All in all, I like that kit a lot more than the other ones you suggested.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lypíphera

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocagenocitis View Post
Or killing his ghouls. Personally I think lowering the damage on his spells and putting it into his minions HP, damage, and Time they last would be superior than a pointless rework.
Personally, I really like this idea. Cut some of the front end damage of each of the spells and double the hp/time they would last, perhaps slightly increase the CD on the initial levels to compensate. This would lower his range harras and make killing the minions worth it, also adding gold for killing them. I would also extend the 10s on his ulti to 15s to give it more presence and give him a more meaningful endgame.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BedderDanu

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

07-01-2013

Alright, I haven't read every kit here, but I'm offering this up as a sort of hybrid build, one that combines the melee bruiser with the undead leader aspect. To kind of drive the kit home, I've added in a sort o "Undead Mafia" theme, just to get the point across. I've also left off numbers so the theme of the kit comes off as clearly as possible.

I think with the following kit, It may even be balanced around being manaless.

Passive: Boss - Yorick commands an army of ghouls. Each summoned ghoul has x% of his AD, Armor, Resistance, Move Speed, and Current HP (Down to a minimum of y HP) He can control 1/2/3 ghouls at a time (levels 1/11/16, or whatever). Ghouls are controlled by using the ability corresponding to that ghoul. They move to or auto attack wherever you direct them, depending on where you click on them. All ghouls are summoned next to Yorick if they are not already on the field.

Q: Wheelman - Direct your green ranged ghoul to move or attack the target location. Enemies hit by the ranged ghoul get a green mark. Yorick or his Ghouls gain a x/x/x/x/x% move speed buff when running toward a green mark.

W: Button - Direct your red melee ghoul to move or attack the target location. Enemies hit by the melee ghoul get a red mark. Yorick or his Ghouls recover x/x/x/x/x% life when attacking enemies with a red mark.

E: Capo - Direct your blue melee ghoul to move or attack the target location. This ghoul deals an additional x/x/x/x/x% damage to enemy champions. In addition, the blue ghoul causes a target with a green mark to be slowed y/y/y/y/y%, or a red mark to receive z/z/z/z/z damage over time.

R: Cartel - (whichever version of summon all the ghouls that deal small damage and explode works out the best)

With a build like this, Yorick maintains his bruser build. Since he has no direct abilities tied to the ghouls, they can be more independent since all you are doing is managing the effects on 4 different auto attacks. He should no longer be an oppressive lane bully, since he can't control multiple ghouls until the lane phase starts to end. In addition, for Yorick to capitalize on his sustain, he needs to go in.

By having his ghouls summon based on his current HP, it makes harass on Yorick stick better. In addition, the above build probably would be manaless. Instead, Ghouls have unlimited up time, but killing a ghoul causes it to go on a 20 second cooldown.

Potential drawbacks would be that level 1-3 will almost always be in yorick's favor with that HP battery this way.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AwesomeGuy09

Senior Member

07-01-2013

F*** yorick, I want the heimerdinger rework