Let's talk about Yorick

First Riot Post
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Aeaeros

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Thinking out loud here, but what if we re-positioned those ghoul summons to one ability and have his other abilities do different things.

Q: 20 second cooldown. Debuffs a minion or monster dealing x damage over 5 seconds. If the minion or monster is killed a ghoul is resurrected under the control of Yorick. This ghoul depends on the type of monster it was raised from (lizard, wraith, wolf or minion -- but not superminions).

If no target is selected a generic ghoul is summoned.

Yorick can have up to 3 ghouls summoned at one time. The health of these ghouls slowly decay and will eventually die after 1 minute.

This would allow the rest of his kit to not directly deal with the summoning of minions. Not that minions shouldn't be interactive with the rest of his kit, just simply that all of his abilities don't need to summon them.


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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

07-01-2013

A better question would be: Do you want Yorick to be up close and personal with an entourage of ghouls or swarm you with an army of the undead?

Right now he does both in a very boring way. You would have to change his appearance for the latter because a big buff hunchback dude wouldn't hide behind an army of minions. He would run up to you and hit with his shovel.

I don't want you changing Yorick completely to lose his shovel and be a minion commander. I feel like you need to tone down your passion to make the perfect game and be aware that many people would be so upset with Riot if you decided to completely changed what Yorick is. Give him more incentive to run up and smack people with his shovel, but give him bigger and buffer looking ghouls to back him up. Change his abilities from swarming from afar to being this undead army wall that storms a base or an enemy.

Idea on how to do this:
- Q no longer gives increased movement speed but gives increased attack speed/damage on hit for Yorick
- W spawns the Green ghoul in an area around Yorick while also dealing the aoe and applying a mark. Hitting champs with the mark on them will slow them and apply a DoT.
- E now applies a DoT mark on the enemy that when consumed by an auto-attack spawns the Orange lifesteal ghoul next to the enemy


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Godunderscor

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Underlining mine. Spectacular and eloquent explanation why Yorick should remain in his current role magik8ball's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magik8ball View Post
Whereas instead of 'commanding' them, he uses them as tools to assist him beating people into the ground. This would be versus a necromancer who sits behind minions, making them do stuff for him. Yorick gets down and dirty, using his little undead mafia to help with the cleanup.

That said, I think a melee fighter is really what Yorick is. A necromancer is what some people want, and so they think that's what Yorick could be. I just feel that that sort of approach is better suited to a different champion entirely, because I really enjoy Yorick's current melee bruiser playstyle right now.

As a side note, league could use a good necromancer/minion champ. Just make a it a new champ with better thought-out abilities instead of shoe-horning an old champ into those roles. I mean, it could even be a lore tie-in with Yorick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
It seems like this is the major point of contention:

Is Yorick a melee fighter or a minion commander

Players who want a necromancer style of play want more ghoul commands.
Players who want a strong melee fighter want to ignore the ghouls.

Of these two categories, which one does League need more? Which one is the best "fit" for Yorick? I'll be discussing this more with coworkers tomorrow as well.
As for this: It seems too... agile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post


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Critkeeper

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Is there a way to merge these two concepts better?

I can imagine a world where Yorick's ghouls work like Zed's shadows, performing actions in sync with Yorick when he attacks. That might let us get a mixture of both worlds. Compromising is dangerous though. I feel pretty empathetic to the guys who are like "we have a ton of auto attack bruisers".

Similarly, I feel bad for people like you who have made the best by auto-attacking with Yorick a lot, making the best out of a bad situation.

What path leads to the strongest possible champion concept, with unique character, mechanics and personality?
How about if Yorick becomes somewhat like xerath?

Xerath occupies the "I root myself to cast long range spells at my enemies" identity in league of legends; he's a piece of artillery.


What if yorick became "I root myself to summon and command an army of the dead" identity?

You might be thinking: "gee thats suspiciously similar to xerath, I don't really like that they are so similar."

But really, they aren't quite so similar. Xerath's spells are just area of effect instances of damage. Yorick's "spells" live and breath. That cluster of ghouls IS yorick for all intents and purposes. Damaging the ghouls will damage (but not kill) yorick. The ghouls can move around, give chase to enemies, team fight, use abilities...

Its like you control an army. Kind of like a summoner in Dungeon Defenders.

People who like to auto attack can get the same fantasy, only they are auto attacking with replinishable ghouls. They use the ghouls to last hit, they harass with the ghouls. The ghouls are yorick.

Yorick the grave digger is a casting beacon that is vulnerable to assassination. You have to be aware of that and position yourself correctly.


Unlike xerath, you only root yourself while giving commands to the ghouls. Its an alt+click thing or alt+cast. You can move around between commands to stay in the safest spots you can find.

Unlike xerath you don't have a billion range. Its large, but not that large. You are still going to have to be prudent about staying away from your enemy if you have been wittled down because of ghoul damage.



I wouldn't put sustain in this kind of kit without exposing Yorick to a lot of risk.


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Smoqueed

Member

07-01-2013

Im not a big fan of this third kit. It makes his ghouls seem even more out of the picture than they are now. They just kinda sit around and huck stuff at you and play minor roles in two of his spells. His ult seems interesting but does not interact with the ghouls at all.

This third kit has less ghoul interaction other than "They do minor spell effects, provide ranged damage, and tank some of Yorick's damage." Killing them dosnt seem to merit anything besides making him slightly more vulnerable to damage while removing a bit of annoyance via ghouls throwing stuff at you unlike kit 1.

Kit 1 denied Yorick buffs and damage from Yorick and his ghouls which left Yorick vulnerable. At the same time having the ghouls felt meaningful for Yorick. Kit two also had a spell effect in every spell. I liked that a lot. Having the ghouls gave you a few benefits in many situations. I feel the ghouls should be melee since they're meant to "Swarm" you in the same fashion zombies would. If they're at range chucking stuff at you, they just kinda feel like turrets. Yorick is unique in the sense that he is a minion summoner that fights -with- the minions. Having them at range creates a "reverse" summoner who fights while his minions are just -there-.

The ult on Kit 3 is a vast improvement thematically and mechanically over the one from kit 2. It fits the demand for an "Army of the dead" theme while Yorick can fight with them and command them to swarm an area. A few friends of mine discussed and it agree that so far this is the best iteration of an ult for Yorick you have proposed.

Overall, I wish to see Yorick as a minion commander who fights with them. Not fighting in front of them, not fighting behind them, but fighting with them. Therefore he should be in the bruiser category, yet unique. The bruiser that uses minions in the fight to swarm you. The bruiser that offers feel good moments for you and him. This is why I liked kit 1 the most. I would hate to see Yorick as a squishy caster that just controlled minions. That archetype gets old. A guy that fights with his minions in your face? Now that's cool. He would also be a lame support. The ghouls are his buddies. They belong to him. Plus we already have a Shadow Isles support.


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Tyrant Tibbers

Member

07-01-2013

Unholy Covenant
Yorick uses the power of the dead to fuel his magic, permanently gaining 6 mana for each body collected.

Omen of Conquest
Passive Yorick gains 2/3/4/5/6 movement speed for each nearby allied unit (Max 6 units)

Active Yorick deals 5/10/15/20/25% bonus damage per nearby allied unit on his next attack. (Max 6 units)

Omen of War
Passive When ever someone dies close to Yorick he summons a dog of war. ( 1 + 1 for every 60 ad, Max 2/3/4/5/6, cool down 10/9/8/7/6 sec)

Active Yorick cries 'Havoc!', and let’s slip the dogs of war. Dogs of war gain 42/48/54/60/66 % movement speed and seek out the lowest health targets slowing and attacking them for 3 sec before returning to their master.

Omen of Famine
Passive Yorick’s basic attacks cause famine causing their target’s health to decay. (2/3/4/5/6% +1% per 60ap over 6 sec)

Active Yorick spreads famine to all nearby enemies, healing Yorick. (60/70/80/90/100% +6% per 60ap)

Omen of Death
[Enemy] Yorick causes his enemy to take 50/75/100% increased damage from the next 6 attacks.

[Ally] Yorick absorbs the next 6 attacks taken for his ally reducing damage taken for each subsequent hit by 11/13/15%, if Yorick dies to this damage he is cool downs are refreshed and he is revived for 6 sec.

[self] Yorick becomes one with death causing him to take and deal 200% damage for 6 sec any damage that would otherwise kill Yorick instead heals him.

Numbers can be tweaked

[Edit] Dogs of war follow Yorick and have a short leash, when he lets lose the dogs of war their range increases, but they will only attack targets that can be seen. and will prioritize champions when he uses the ability. When he is not using the ability they will act like Elise spiderlings only attacking things Yorick attacks, Yorick can also control the dogs like Tibbers while the ability is active but unless given a specific target they will seek out low hp champions.

I was also thinking that the dogs should have a shared health pool with each other so that it is possible to kill all of them from simply single targeting them as well as aoe


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John 0ldman

Junior Member

07-01-2013


First want to say that i can't post with my european acc on the NA forums so i had to make a lvl 5 smurf in order to post, i think this need to be fixed asap because you are missing a huge amount of feedback since other regions can't send feedback on this kind of posts, most ppl will not bother on lvl an acc on other region up to lvl 5 like i did.

I personaly think that his ultimate is really cool and unique, defines him as a champ, and make certain teamcomps viable that would not be otherwise (imo the more viable teamcomps the better for the game) so i would prefer it stays the same after the rework. I have a diferent kit on mind, more caster oriented, i dont think any of this will be implemeted because it will require a soft visual rework of some features, but who knows.


The concept is the following, his ghouls are invulnerable and just follow him until yorick activates them, it will be similar to the old one in a sense but will have more counterplay because all of the ghouls will have travel time and you will be able to clearly see if they are alive and ready to shoot or not. The cd on each ghoul will be the time it takes to yorick to exhume them again.


The passive can be oriented to be similar to your previous kit 1, janna Zephyr or lulu pix, giving some kind of buffs only if the ghouls are alive. Ratios based on the current lvl of each Ghoul

Passive:
When Inky is alive Yorick gains X% Movement Speed
When Stinky is alive Yorick's basic attacks deals x aditional Magic Damage
When Munch is alive Yorick gains X% Tenacity

Explanation: This passive add more decision making to the champion and not a brainless spam. Examples:
Case 1 Yorick is being chased by 2 persons. if he uses his Q to poke while running he risk getting caught by the enemy team.
Case 2 Yorick is on a teamfight, he have the option to use W to peel for his carry or instead save it to deal more dmg and burst down faster the ad carry in front of him.
Case 3 Yorick E just came up but he knows enemy taric is about to stun him, he save it a bit until he eats the stun.

Q: Inky, The Spectral Ghoul
If Inky dies Yorick is able to exhume him after X secs.
Active: Inky moves to the target location, dealing magic damage and haunting the nearest enemy, revealing it for 3 seconds. If Inky does not hit an enemy at the target location it will re-target itself and chase down a nearby enemy, prioritizing champions. Inky's movement speed increases as it gets closer to its target. If after 3 secs dont find anyting he dies (Posible adition, if the target dies being haunted by Inky he returns to you instead of dying and being put on cd)

Explanation: similar to elise's volatile spiderling but with single target damage instead aoe and also reveals. The numbers on misile speed, range, cd, and damage make it easy to tweak and balance. Imo Reveal fit the lore on yorick (ghosts haunting ppl).

W: Stinky, the Decaying Ghoul
If Stinky dies Yorick is able to exhume him after X Seconds.
Active: Stinky moves to the target location and explodes damaging enemies within X range and leaving a field of pestilence snarings enemies that remain on the area up to X Seconds

Explanation: A ground target aoe snare with travel time, that does not relies on your ghoul not being deleted on miliseconds, no need to grant vision once it explodes since the new Q already does that job.

E: Munch, the Ravening Ghoul
If Munch dies Yorick is able to exhume him after X Seconds.
Munch follows the target enemy, on colision deals magic damage and heals you for X% of the damage dealt.After the initial damage Munch becomes vulnerable and fight up to X seconds, healing Yorick each time it attacks. The healing effect is halved against minions.

Explanation:The same as live but with travel time to give more option to counterplay and fit the new design.

R: I think his current ultimate is the main pilar of the champion so no changes.

English is not my main language so sorry if i have grammar mistakes.
I hope This feedback dont get lost and reach the devs, they may find this usefull to some extent


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DrammaLamma

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post

What is the most frustrating part of facing Yorick?

He does not eve have to try and gets to block 75% or more of the skill shots thrown at him.

Anti fun against him, and due to lack of skill involved its not even fun to do against your opponents (IMO)


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DrammaLamma

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post

What is the most frustrating part of facing Yorick?

He does not eve have to try and gets to block 75% or more of the skill shots thrown at him.

Anti fun against him, and due to lack of skill involved its not even fun to do against your opponents as yoric (IMO)


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Garlyle Wilds

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
It seems like this is the major point of contention:

Is Yorick a melee fighter or a minion commander

Players who want a necromancer style of play want more ghoul commands.
Players who want a strong melee fighter want to ignore the ghouls.

Of these two categories, which one does League need more? Which one is the best "fit" for Yorick? I'll be discussing this more with coworkers tomorrow as well.
I would argue League needs the former more - there are many, many characters who already exist to fill the "melee fighter" role in many variations, but few that fulfill the "commander/deployer/etc" role - something that currently makes Yorick very distinctive but I don't think presently capitalizes on.