Let's talk about Yorick

First Riot Post
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Apocagenocitis

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Is there a way to merge these two concepts better?

I can imagine a world where Yorick's ghouls work like Zed's shadows, performing actions in sync with Yorick when he attacks. That might let us get a mixture of both worlds. Compromising is dangerous though. I feel pretty empathetic to the guys who are like "we have a ton of auto attack bruisers".

Similarly, I feel bad for people like you who have made the best by auto-attacking with Yorick a lot, making the best out of a bad situation.

What path leads to the strongest possible champion concept, with unique character, mechanics and personality?
Thats not yorick though, he wouldn't play the same, essentially a different champion.


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exe3

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Here's a new pitch based on some of the ideas in this thread.

Basic idea: Yorick is a close-range, melee bruiser. He can use his ghouls to gain ranged damage and harass, but only by putting them at risk.

I also mocked up what it would look like when 3 ghouls were protecting Yorick defensively.

Attachment 720826
The main issue I have with this kit is that it sounds like the three ghouls act as a single unit so you're giving us the illusion of having 3 ghouls without them actually functioning as 3 distinct and individual ghouls. I think most players want to keep that feeling of having three distinct ghouls.

The passive sounds solid, he'll be deceptively tanky especially if all 3 ghouls are out (unless it's 10% damage across all 3 ghouls instead of each ghoul taking 10% of the damage amounting to 30% reduction) but the counterplay to that is killing the ghouls. It's going to be a shame if you can't do proper pet controls, I just can't get my head around alt+clicking and i'll be sad to miss out on the new Yorick if you went down this route.

The leap you've added with Q is weird, I can't think of what purpose it really adds and could actually be a huge problem if you just want to Q for extra damage without jumping over the enemy. Also can you imagine that hulking mass leaping over a champion? I can't. XD

For W when you say snare do you mean slow? It gets confusing as you keep saying snare but the context seems to imply a slow. Regardless it sounds alright, the ghouls acting as the medium for the spell like Orianna's ball is cool, the only minor ****le is whether it'll feel like a waste having a second useless gas explosion happen assuming either Yorick or the ghouls aren't next to a target (pressure and unsatisfaction in wanting to maximize the spells usefulness). Tbh though I like the idea of the current W where it's an AoE slow that keeps slowing as long as the ghoul is alive/you get away or if the effect were to wear off in a remake.

For E it sounds solid enough as a skill, I don't really have strong feelings one way or another for it tbh.

The ultimate I like a bunch, it draws from previous suggestions of bringing up that army of the undead that Yorick controls and fights alongside. I like the direction you're heading in here.


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Heek

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Is there a way to merge these two concepts better?

I can imagine a world where Yorick's ghouls work like Zed's shadows, performing actions in sync with Yorick when he attacks. That might let us get a mixture of both worlds. Compromising is dangerous though. I feel pretty empathetic to the guys who are like "we have a ton of auto attack bruisers".

Similarly, I feel bad for people like you who have made the best by auto-attacking with Yorick a lot, making the best out of a bad situation.

What path leads to the strongest possible champion concept, with unique character, mechanics and personality?
The stronger his AAs are the more of a melee fighter he is, the stronger his ghouls/abilities are the more of a ranged necromancer he is. Just make certain parts of his kits benefit AA and others benefit casting.


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The Committee

Senior Member

07-01-2013

What do you think about giving him a gapclose/hard CC, making a bunch of ghouls dogpile an enemy would be cool, because as it is he has little way to close the gap from what I see.


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Mirage Night

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Okay, great! This helps me understand the high moments specific to Yorick better than any other post so far. To summarize:

1) Ambushing with ghouls + ult is fun
2) Cutting through the enemy team via smart use of spells to reach the ADC
3) Revenge killing someone
4) Defending tower against the odds
5) Protecting your ADC with slows and ghouls.
Taking a step further

Being able to anti-harass
Being able to stand up to ranged pokes.
Negating snowball champions to help the team later


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KirbyHero

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Is there a way to merge these two concepts better?

I can imagine a world where Yorick's ghouls work like Zed's shadows, performing actions in sync with Yorick when he attacks. That might let us get a mixture of both worlds. Compromising is dangerous though. I feel pretty empathetic to the guys who are like "we have a ton of auto attack bruisers".

Similarly, I feel bad for people like you who have made the best by auto-attacking with Yorick a lot, making the best out of a bad situation.

What path leads to the strongest possible champion concept, with unique character, mechanics and personality?
Big picture? Minion commander. An important part of a game with tons and tons of barriers to entry like League naturally develops (comes with the genre) is to make things as intuitive as possible at every turn. When players see that Yorick, they assume he is a minion commander. They will engage in strategies based on that assumption they will fail. Yes, they can read up, etc, but it's in addition to a whole ton of things new players are learning out. Learning that Yorick has counterintuitive champ design doesn't need to be added to the list. Rework Poppy and the game will have +1 bruiser, yorick autoattack players can play her or one of the many bruisers that might suit their style.


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Psychomojo

Junior Member

07-01-2013

I wonder if there isn't a way to incorporate the ghouls into the abilities more. Maybe his Q hits an enemy with on of the ghouls instead of the shovel. Maybe his W can have the green ghoul(I'd assume that's the poisonous one) emit the gas ect.


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Dementation

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
It seems like this is the major point of contention:

Is Yorick a melee fighter or a minion commander

Players who want a necromancer style of play want more ghoul commands.
Players who want a strong melee fighter want to ignore the ghouls.

Of these two categories, which one does League need more? Which one is the best "fit" for Yorick? I'll be discussing this more with coworkers tomorrow as well.
I think League needs the necromancer with more ghoul commands. We need more champions that controls their own units, and we also have enough of these "strong melee fighters" that reworking Yorick into one would be a complete bore.

I feel like the necromancer is the best fit. Yorick is a dead dude with a shovel, a strong melee fighter isn't exactly the first that comes to mind. Plus being undead, I would kind of expect some necromancy from him.


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kongajinken

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Here's a new pitch based on some of the ideas in this thread.

Basic idea: Yorick is a close-range, melee bruiser. He can use his ghouls to gain ranged damage and harass, but only by putting them at risk.

I also mocked up what it would look like when 3 ghouls were protecting Yorick defensively.

Edit: Updated to be all physical damage, as suggested.
That kit looks pretty good, instead of just jumping over them, maybe have the minions swarm from the front while you jump over, that way its like you pincer the target, although to what degree the minions hamper there movement I don't really care, just wish the spell had a bit more to do with them.

Also I think yorick's entire concept is that of a necromancer, I didn't buy him to bruiser it up, so I'm for necromancer personally.


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MandyMemory

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

I'd like to see his ghouls be ranged. He should be in your face, but the ghouls have no reason to. It would also make them safer late game.