Let's talk about Yorick

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Grab my Lemons

Senior Member

06-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I agree, it sounds like we need a statement of Goals in terms of reworking Yorick. Now that I've gotten an initial flood of ideas from you guys, I'm going to bounce the overall themes (Bruiser Yorick, Support Buff Yorick, Necromancer Yorick, War Commander Yorick) with my colleagues and see which role we think is most appropriate for the character.

Once we firmly establish what kind of character role we want Yorick to fill, we can try to build a kit from the ideas and feedback you guys have given here. It will also help narrow this discussion down in a way that we can focus this conversation.
Thanks for the quick reply! I know I'm just another fan, but I have to ask - why stick to just one role? For example, you specifically delineate the difference between bruiser and support Yorick, while champs like Shen and Nautilus have the capabilities to both tank and support. Are you making the conscious decision to stick to one role for new Yorick, or is it too early to tell?


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emTmyclipin2u

Senior Member

06-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
There's some good ideas here. Major takeaways are as follows:

1) Ghouls are only a resource. They are just spell effects here. This can work, but it feels like a lost opportunity for a counterplay unit.
2) Your general ability choices were pretty good. I liked the core ideas. (Ghouls are basically a visible cooldown reset)
3) Your omens are overdesigned, with too many different stances. Aatrox has two stances and he's still pretty hard to use, when that's most of what you have to do with him. 4 stances is excessive. What you do in those stances is pretty good though. (Speed up/slow down/bonus damage, etc) However, one is likely to be dominant and the rest ignored.
4) The ultimate is a better version of R#2 for a fighter. Props there!

Overall, you have some good logic, solid writing skills, a nice mixture of interesting abilities and a clear direction. You should keep doing stuff like this. I can see you turning this into a career in the future.
Possible solution to this:
1) Make the ghouls able to be hit. Make them orbit Yorick with decent health and aoe resist. This brings counterplay from both sides. Yorick can use them to block skill shots, and opponents have something to hit to stop the spam.

2) agreed, actually brings somethings unique to the fight that is actually a counter to the current meta of 2v1 tower storming. Essentially for a short time Yorick becomes like the original Yorick, dishing out pain and being a nuisance, which can drive people off of towers. Also liked how he maintained both the poke and sustain of Yorick, while adding the ability to outplay it for either side

3) Yeah pretty much. It feels like you tried to put Udyr's entire kit into 1 ability. Switching that many times could suck, but then I thought of TF. What if the ghouls were like his cards? It gives the opponent a heads up, allowing for counter play, which means the spell itself can be stronger, and allows you to have consistency and strategy.

4) yes. Want this ultimate.


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blindasleep

Senior Member

06-30-2013

If you completely change his kit as you seem to be planning, can I have a refund? I agree that most people don't understand how to counter Yorick, but he's not poorly designed.His kit fits his lore and gives him options on just how to play him, ranged harass that doesn't have a lot of kill potential or melee fighter that can kill.His kit gives him the ability to stick and actually kill, instead of being out ran because he doesn't have an instant gap closer.He isn't nearly as broken as Jayce, that kit is the worst designed peace of junk in the game.Make his ult rewarding, fix the targeting on his ghouls, stop giving in tho people that don't want to learn how to counter champs.The more champs like Jayce and dumbing down of game play the faster you'll kill the game.He needs tweeks to make him less immovable early and more self sufficient later.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

06-30-2013
36 of 123 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisla View Post
I guess one thing to more define Xer is what really defines a rework? To me eve was a rework but Kat was more touch ups. What is your defenition of a full on rework?
I really wish someone would write a Riot Dictionary. I'm not sure which term to use.

Visual Upgrade - Focused on bringing the character up to modern day lol standards
Tweak - Minor changes to the character to improve game health.
Rework - Mechanical changes to the character to add strength and vulnerabilities.
Relaunch - A reboot of the character both visually and mechanically to create a cohesive fit in league of legends. (I consider Sejuani a relaunch)

A full rework means that the core philosophies of the character are out of line. In Yorick's case, his meaningless ghouls, choice of abilities and their interactions and his role in the game.

I strongly suspect the right places for a character like this are Top and/or Jungle. Support Yorick exists only because of his free, frustrating harassment.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

06-30-2013
37 of 123 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grab my Lemons View Post
Thanks for the quick reply! I know I'm just another fan, but I have to ask - why stick to just one role? For example, you specifically delineate the difference between bruiser and support Yorick, while champs like Shen and Nautilus have the capabilities to both tank and support. Are you making the conscious decision to stick to one role for new Yorick, or is it too early to tell?
I'm generally a fan of multiple roles. I question if Yorick players love the idea that they are a new form of Thresh though if I focused on making him work in that role. Hide in the bush, jump out and scare the enemy, harass down, hard to kill, etc.


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Sinspurch

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
X... Y.... Z... ?

I see what you did there.
even THINK about touching Zilean ill flip so MANY tables and quit league! >:l He's my favorite mage support since i started playing and hes PPPERFECT!


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Creeke

Junior Member

07-01-2013

Yorick Players:
What is the fantasy of playing Yorick?
Well as a Yorick Player I think of an undead zombie gravedigger who brings his buddies into battle with him.

What are the high moments of Yorick?
When you save a teammate who got caught out with your ultimate just before a team fight and you somehow win.

What do you dislike most about playing Yorick?
His mana costs are a wee bit high. In addition he can't carry the team completely like some of the other tops can. He is mostly a tank so there is no danger of him snowballing out of control like other tops. The only times he even manages to get a kill top lane if the top laner opponent makes a major mistake and somehow lets yorick kill him.

Yorick Opponents:
What is the most frustrating part of facing Yorick?
He is a brick wall. You can't easily get a kill on him and he can't get easily get a kill on you.

How do you win a game against Yorick?
You pick someone with who can sustain alongside him and abuse his mana issues. People like Zed who can farm safely with his ranged. Or others like Lee Sin, Garen, and Cho'gath are fine top. Chogath in particular is a great counter because of his passives allows him to abuse Yorick's ghouls to heal and his mana issues.

What do you enjoy most about facing Yorick?
When he ults the wrong person.

How does Yorick lose a game?
Yorick loses the game when his other lanes lose too heavily and cannot fight during team fight time in which case he is forced to ult himself in hopes of a suicide kill a several members. He provides great team fight power with his AOE mobile slow and his game changing ultimate. His movement from his q allows him to ignore the frontlines sometimes completely.

Sorry for the wall of text but I hope this helps.


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Lutzburg

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by emTmyclipin2u View Post
Possible solution to this:
1) Make the ghouls able to be hit. Make them orbit Yorick with decent health and aoe resist. This brings counterplay from both sides. Yorick can use them to block skill shots, and opponents have something to hit to stop the spam.

2) agreed, actually brings somethings unique to the fight that is actually a counter to the current meta of 2v1 tower storming. Essentially for a short time Yorick becomes like the original Yorick, dishing out pain and being a nuisance, which can drive people off of towers. Also liked how he maintained both the poke and sustain of Yorick, while adding the ability to outplay it for either side

3) Yeah pretty much. It feels like you tried to put Udyr's entire kit into 1 ability. Switching that many times could suck, but then I thought of TF. What if the ghouls were like his cards? It gives the opponent a heads up, allowing for counter play, which means the spell itself can be stronger, and allows you to have consistency and strategy.

4) yes. Want this ultimate.
1: I feel like that would almost be akin to Diana's W (the shield) in a sense. Since it seems like Yorick players are really interested in a way to block skillshots, I could envision reworking Scourge Strike so that it IS targetable, and could block skillshots. Using a fast-traveling ghoul to 'intercept' an incoming skillshot (even if it's aimed at an ally and not you) sounds incredibly fun and a great tool for raising Yorick's skill ceiling.

2: Great, that's exactly the idea! Yorick players could still turn on that heavy harass/swarm style game play, but only in short bursts.

3: I mentioned Hammurabi in the original post, and as an avid TF player he's the one that actually sparked the idea for the W to be more like Pick-A-Card. That was the direct inspiration for the original ability. I could see it working that way, but didn't want to take away from one of TF's most iconic abilities.

4: Riot plz


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Chillin

Senior Member

07-01-2013

you seem pretty biased why is yoricks kit "frustrating harassment" how is it different from any other champ like lux support harrassment


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Kchaosrei

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

Xelnath how much time have u played yorick?

Also i feel that you are dead set to change yoricks identy to much(from your posts). Your vision of what he is and what others/players think he is/should seems to be a major conflict. You should be asking what his core identy is to the players is.

From what i have read that he is a brusier, shovel weilding ghoul caster that can manipulate the souls of allies.

There is alot of room to change stuff without ripping apart who he is and what the player base see him as. Change the q,w,e as u want. But please leave his ult alone. Its part of what identifies yorick as yorick.