Let's talk about Yorick

First Riot Post
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Purgatory Ace

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Senior Member

06-29-2013

I both play yorick and have played against him.

Questions:

General:

Do the ghosts attack things or do they just circle around you?

Unholy Covenant: Do all ghosts respawn when the cooldown is up on your passive? Or does 1 spawn at a time? If one at a time, is it random or based off of which ability you have at the highest level and then random at max lvls? Or would it be based on which one died first? Do they only spawn if you have at least 1 point in the ability?

Unholy Covenant: Is that a tooltip Error with it saying Munch gives you 15% Life steal, while the passive says life steal and spell vamp? Or do they stack?

Kit 1:

Triple team: On Ally cast, does this mean they get copies of your ghosts? or do they just get the passives from the ghosts while reducing your cooldown for the ghoul spawns with their auto attacks?

kit 2:

Explosive Harvest: Does this snare stack then if your ghost is alive when you cast it? Is the ghoul cleave a larger radius then your active effect so it can slow enemies a little further away then the person you hit?


Opinions:

Kit 1: Currently this seems like it just takes his original kit, minus the passive and ult change, and amplifies it. He no longer needs to land an auto attack for his speed boost and he still has the aoe range slow.

Kit 2:

Explosive Harvest: Since it seems to be an aoe around yorick, perhaps make it so if the ghost is alive have it root for 1.5 second instead of slowing movement. This of course is based on the assumption that the ghosts are rather easy to kill. If the ghost is hard to kill then just a stacking slow (assuming it stacks) would be the better option.

Final opinion on Kit: I feel like both have really good points and that possible swaps in abilities might make a really good kit. I am leaning towards kit 1 as the more dominate one because I personally prefer the idea of sharing the power with a team mate with ghouls. This also still lets Yorick do a support role (maybe even more so then before).

Passive: Ghouls can only spawn if you have learned the ability. This keeps him from being super annoying at lvl 1. Also depending on how the ghosts work this could be super annoying for landing skill shots. Elise spiderlings eating skill shots tend to be annoying and they don't do a lot of damage to the spiders.

Q Kit 1: I like the idea of being able to either use this to disengage or chase. I prefer this being more utility based with some damage if you use it to chase than nuke based where you waste most of the potential if you don't use it to chase. Also the more utility based helps when giving it to an ally.

W kit 1 or 2 Depending on E: I feel like you should preserve the atk dmg bonus and add ap bonus to it as well. This way on your ultimate you could also effectively use it on an ap as well as your ad. This also slightly opens yorick up to build different items that are more hybrid then just ad or ap, and this way he will actually scale according to how you choose to build him. Full ad? Full ap? Mix? Both damages go up instead of being pigeon holed. If you go tank or support? Then it just helps your allies when you cast your ult.
I definitely think this ability should not be a consistent slow. Possibly just a stronger slow on explosion when the ghoul is up or a root if it's a small aoe around yorick.

E kit 1 or 2 Depending on W: Keep the life steal and spell vamp. I also like it marking a target that you actually have to hit for the main part of the sustain vs just free sustain on cast.

R kit 1: As i said previously, I like the idea of sharing stats with an ally while having an option to use it like a nuke. This also opens it up, if you are having a good game, the nuke could be useful. If you are having a **** game, casting it on an ally would be more useful. Also clutch saves.

The reason W and E change based on each other is because I feel like 1 of his ghosts should be able to scout a bush for him. If his W is a small aoe around him, then have his E be skill shot oriented so it can scout a bush. If his w is ranged, then he can still scout with that and his E can be a target ability.


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Master SARS

Senior Member

06-29-2013

Definitely not a fan of Kit #2. Kit #2 seems like it's trying to "do too much" by retaining some of the core qualities of the current kit while adding on some mild CC. Honestly, a ranged nuke, MS buff, sustain, snare, and remote control ghouls on a tank character? Yeah, with that kit the ghouls have interplay with one another, but it just doesn't seem right for the role or the character. Honestly, I'd see this working for a mage (reminds me of Zyra), but not a character known for being tanky DPS/off-tank top.

That being said, I really like Kit #1 because it forces you to make difficult decisions regarding various trade-offs because of the ability passives/actives. More importantly, it encourages interaction from the lane opponent because he/she will be able to see which ghouls are currently alive, and act them accordingly. My jungler is coming for a gank? Well, I better kills that MS buff ghoul ASAP. I want to duel him in close combat? That E ghoul looks tasty. The ult also brings out some great play, as now the choice is a lot more nuanced than the current kit's ult, since the self-cast now carries a form of soft initiation that he never really had to fit his tank role, while the ally cast isn't as boring and one-sided as the current iteration because Yorick's ghouls get transferred. To me, having this "gang" of buff ghosts seems more unique, interactive, and closer to his original intent (and current design) than Kit 2.

PS, Kit #2's ult reminds me too much of Hecarim's ult. Thematically, I'm not really expecting a lonely gravedigger to have an army.


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

06-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I've thrown together two "kit" ideas based on the concepts posed earlier for discussion of the ideas behind them. Keep in mind, these are only tooltips... and tooltips are much easier to write than abilities are to build.

Which of these better fits the kind of character Yorick should be? Please explain why you like or hate it.

Good Talking Points:
* Counterplay - which one provides the better experience?
* Creativity - which one lets the player feel like a pro?
* Cohesiveness - which ones feels like it works well together?

Kit 1)


Kit 2)

Ghouls interplay with each other. Yorick's ultimate is a powerful army command tool.
Hmm I like Kit 2's ult a lot. Swapping to army control is neat and rather unique. "Go go Pikmen" sounds fun.

Kit 2, however, has very boring ghouls and spellcast effects from the sound of it. Specifically it sounds like there isn't a ton of control over the Ghouls in Yorick's normal form.

Kit 1 has better sounding ghouls and abilities...but that's a steroid other ult. That sounds really powerful. Likely less breakable then his current ult while having the same use case (use on AD Carry) which is always good in reworks. (I believe maintaining use case maintains feel.)

I also dislike his passive in both. It's confusing. He gets 1 Ghoul every 30 seconds? Yet each Ghoul is unique with a special interaction. No control over who gets what.

I do want to point out that Yorick doesn't need to mantain his Q-W-E = Inky Stinky Munch. He has 3 keys and the Ghouls could be condensed into a "Pick a Card" esque one. Granting greater control of which Ghoul you get next. "Full Pikeman route" basically.

I'd say...
Passive - Yorick gathers the corpses of nearby dead. Granting _____ .(Similar to Thresh's passive only he gets the corpses).
Q- Yorick commands his Ghouls to leap upon a target foe and gains 20% MS. If that target is within 400 units Yorick leaps forward and hits them with his shovel as well. He gains
W- Passive: Yorick summons a Ghoul on his next ability cast every X seconds. Order is Inky Stinky - Munch - Inky - Stinky - Munch
W- Active: Yorick summons his current Ghoul and the "Ghoul counter" skips ahead. (So if on Inky then Inky will be summoned and Munch will be the next summon skipping over Stinky.)
E- Yorick hits a target with necromatic energy. Empowered by his current selection of Ghouls. Inky/Stinky/Munch Damage/Slow/Health Return.
R- Yorick summons the help of Death. Death stalks Yoricks enemies. Yorick can recast R to switch control to death leaving himself vurnerable but gaining control of Death himself.

...well something like that. Wound up throwing a bunch of ideas together...anyway the key there is the W. It's an Uno style pick a card by granting "Skip a turn" to the order it's functionally different then TFs while still allowing Ghoul control.


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MCRyingXSefiroth

Junior Member

06-29-2013

Although I disagree in some respects with the game play decisions, one thing that I really want is for Yorick to look and play in a way that works with his lore and appearance.

I really like how Yorick's look currently works well with his lore- He is a gravedigger, and a big guy with a big shovel. It is only natural that the rework makes him play like he is just that, a guy that isn't afraid to get his hands dirty (pun very much intended) and tends to be right in the middle of the teamfights. I think the first rework kit is exactly the kind of thing that would make Yorick's current style of appearance work beautifully.

I don't mean to say a shift in his look and play style towards a necromancer thing is something I would hate, just that I feel that his current lore and appearance would need a significant change- and I feel like Yorick's current appearance and story is something worth keeping.


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Done25

Senior Member

06-29-2013

I greatly prefer kit #1. #2 just feels uninteresting and seems like it tries to do too much. Kit 1 feel like a better version of his current kit and seems more satisfying/fluid to play.

I really like how the ghouls give you a bonus while alive, giving the enemy a reason to try and kill specific ones to prevent the effects of one of his skills. In contrast #2 makes the ghouls feel less important, like they only exist to provide minor effects that don't really mesh with his theme. Like Munch rooting an enemy even though he represents Hunger.


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CupcakeRaptorr

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Senior Member

06-29-2013

Killing his ghouls is unsatisfying. Make them give like 1g on kill. Zyra plants are 5g, heimer turrets give gold.


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Sasanian

Senior Member

06-29-2013

Xelnath, the Kit 1 that you have is a much more supporty feel to Yorick which I don't think is the way Yorick is supposed to be, if instead you changed it to more like the current ult of the target ultimately dies but if Yorick's ultimate is on the ally the ghouls attached to him are sacrificed and the ally revives with the Unholy Covenant passive until his spectre dies after X seconds. - This makes Kit 1 more integrative toward his current state and is just about changing the feel of his ghouls which is alright, but it needs to still have a revive aspect to it with this Kit.

Kit 2 has a more DPS bruiser feel to it, instead of being a channel, Yorick could possibly revive himself(or another ally) into a controllable cloud of ghouls and put something of theirs(like their health is turned into ghouls 3 health per ghoul for example) into summoning a horde of ghouls that explode on contact. Also, if Yorick gains the ability to have his ghouls immune to damage during the ultimate(like Twin Shadows' ghosts) it gives it a "Nautilus W" feel to it by either focusing Yorick and he will revive into a wave of ghouls OR do not focus him wasting his revive and waiting out his ghosts immunity while he gets his three ghouls to go to town on your team. EDIT: Just had another idea, maybe make it so that when Yorick dies he will create an area where ghouls begin to erupt out of the ground from their graves and cause an aoe damage ability sort of like an upside down W from his current kit(erupting out of the ground creating an aoe slowing damage area the size of Karthus' passive) and the ghouls can leave the area after they spawn, but slowly fade from existence and go from highly colored and visible to lightly to barely transparent until gone.


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Raccoonpunter

Junior Member

06-29-2013

Yorick is my favorite champ and I want to thank you for finally giving him his rework. I like both kits but I very much prefer the second kit over the first,

With the second kit you get that real necromancer feel with actually controlling your ghouls to do your bidding. Which is exactly what I've been looking for in Yorick since I first bought him. The kit also feels like it will give him a larger skillcap which is really awesome (gives me something new to master on my favorite champ ). I love how Yorick actually works together with his ghouls with this kit also, this is way better than simply summoning them and have them just charge the enemy champ, it is a lot more fun/interesting. The ultimate is definitely my favorite part of this kit, sounds so satisfying and awesome. All I can picture when I imagine it is the army of the dead from LOTR.

The first kit just feels like a weird version of his current one. Plus the fact that his ghouls purpose is for buffs just doesn't sound as satisfying as working with them.

I do have a few questions though about the second kit.

Will the ghouls just stand by Yorick and kind of just follow him? Or will they be controllable so you can harass?

I also feel like his kit could be crippled severely by ranged top laners such as Jayce who could simply shockblast/AA his ghouls down thus cutting his skill damage down. So I was wondering how tanky his ghouls will actually be and if they can regen heath and such.

Also with his E it says that the active shoots a ghoul out, so if "Munch" is dead does this skill activate? Or is it a different ghoul entirely?

And I realize Yorick's model doesn't have anything wrong with it, but I was wondering if he will receive a visual update with this rework.


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King Roofus

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Senior Member

06-29-2013

Please don't change his spell names. I like the whole horsemen of the apocalypse thing he has going.


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urmamasllama

Senior Member

06-29-2013

kit one's E Q combo with a triforce would be utterly insane

I like it