Alister: The mobile, indestructible health fountain

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nicosharp

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Senior Member

12-14-2009

i don't understand how chalice is bad for ganking? You get magic resist and the ability to keep your mana fueled up.

Triforce is an item that allows you to solo kill/solo gank most any character, but if you are playing Alistar as a solo gank you are playing the wrong character.. Play Yi or Shaco or Eve.

Chalice allows you to set up ganks over and over on pulv/head recharge. about once every 15 seconds or so. I do like a Triforce on my cow, but it makes no sense to rush it as a first item.

Alistar is one of the best initiators once you learn to play around cleanse, and how to get out of 5-mans without dying (this requires trust in teammates that can often times be incompetent.)

A well timed pulv and headbutt is all u need to setup a gank.
Im tired of people yelling at me for bad headbutts too.. sometimes they have no idea what I am doing, and situationally why I would boot someone away. After 4-5 headbutts I send their way are kills for them, they just get a little greedy in the ability some decent cows have of gift wrapping kills for them. (That said, ive made some horrible headbutts too, but just saying!)


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Bait

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Senior Member

12-14-2009

when you gank, most players will have nearly full hp/mp.
the heated part of battles last maybe 15-30 seconds. how many regen ticks do you expect during that time?


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Wisewind

Senior Member

12-14-2009

I actually prefer Soul Shroud over Innervating Locket, much more versatile in different scenarios giving you MP regen and CD reduction aura for teammates as well as HP for more survivability. Also the price is much more reasonable in my opinion for the bonuses it gives you.

Nothing wrong with Innervating locket but as nico mentioned earlier it's best bought when you are in a 4-5 man premade as it is much more situational.


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nicosharp

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12-14-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bait View Post
when you gank, most players will have nearly full hp/mp.
the heated part of battles last maybe 15-30 seconds. how many regen ticks do you expect during that time?
Ive had battles that last 2 minutes/3 minutes etc..
Plus Headbutt and Pulverize recharges after what, 1 is 14secs the other is 10.. So, you have to use it at least twice since you are the initiator with your ****tastic manapool.
Since the patch, if you port back to get mana back up after a battle, you will never get anywhere, you need to immediately push a tower. Otherwise kiss your advantage in the 15/30sec battle you hopefully won, goodbye.


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Bait

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12-14-2009

that's the other reason you get mana pool over mana regen. the spells on alistar cost quite a bit, especially the ult. if you're going to do 3 pulv, knockups, 5 heals, and 1 ult in the 1-2 min period, the mana pool is still the better bet.


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nicosharp

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12-14-2009

1 sapphire crystal to build a triforce doesnt cut it.


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Bait

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12-14-2009

300 mana goes a pretty long way. with a few mp/level runes, you're pretty solid on mp mid/late game.


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Slide

Senior Member

12-15-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bait View Post
300 mana goes a pretty long way. with a few mp/level runes, you're pretty solid on mp mid/late game.
Considering both Nico and I are big supoprters of sheen, Im sure we both agree.

The main point were trying to make is about when you get these items. I can have a chalice in less then 6 minutes. By the time youve made your triforce, I have chalice, boots ahseen and am working on my fourth item.

Sheen gives 50 less mana then triforce. However, with teh chalice, I also have + 7 mana per 5 to my base and the wonderful passive that doubles yuor mana regen when your at 0.

I think its pretty safe to say, that as far as mana goes, triforce is NOT the way to go. Hell maybe Nico and I dont know how to play. All I know is, my 60 some odd games with Alistar has shown me that the absolute best early game I can have is by rushing chalice. This gives me the most oportunities to feed my carry before laning ends. It also lets me spam the**** out of heal if I need to.

Lastly there is something to be said about having 50% mitigation to both physical and magical damage by just buying your boots and your mana regen item (plus a little extra from runes + masteries).

Again, I agree, triforce is great on alistar. Its a bigger sheen and sheen is amazing on him. I just really dont feel that it should be rushed first. I have yet to see any good argument for doing ANYTHING other then chaclice->ninja tabi (or merc treads if there are 4 or 5 opponents who can do a large amount of magic damage)->sheen.


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nicosharp

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12-15-2009

I am pretty sure Bait is up there too as far as skill level, cause I do remember seeing him in a game or 2. I don't know how to view profiles from work, or of people that aren't on my friends list, but if you view mine you will see a few games on my list as Alistar, and a ton of wins (I think its 192 wins now). I'd say about 70 of those wins are with Alistar. Maybe more.

I find that in higher level play, you need to stay in lane as long as possible, and chalice allows for this, despite unfriendly harrassment. I am going to try going straight to Triforce tonight for 2-3games just to get a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of doing it, cause I have logged many games going chalice to tabi first.


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Livingsword

Senior Member

12-15-2009

The old "Tear of the Goddess Vs Chalice of Harmony" debate, aka mana pool Vs mana regen.

If you get the Tear early you'll have all the mana you'll ever need (just spam Roar), Chalice means you can stay longer in your lane early on but if you take Teleport, trips to the fountain will last only a few seconds anyway. Reaching the +600 mana cap is ridicously easy with Ali's Roar and Tear still has some mana regen of it's own, but gives no resistance thou.

On another way to play Alistar, I've seen many Alistar's that build Rod of Ages and Boots of Swiftness in my last few games, they are basicaly the carry's bodyguard/personal feeder. They forgo the mana regen route and get Catalyst as their first item and depend on leveling up and Teleport for their mana needs.

The build looks something like this:
Sapphire Jewel + 2 Health potions (if you take Pulverize as your first skill, if not 1 mana, 1 health potion)
Basic boots + Catalyst the Protector
Sheen + upgrade to Boots of Swiftness
Finish Rod of Ages
Then whatever seems needed (Aegis to help the carry you baby would seems like a good idea)