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League Distribution 5-29-13

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Ketsumi

Recruiter

06-03-2013

I modeled this after the other two figures by Tegatron. Also added a normal curve for Tier Distribution. All numbers are approximations, etc.

Compared to ~3 months ago, Bronze representation has decreased from 46.6% to 44.0% of all players, Silver representation has remained about the same, decreasing 44.5% to 44.3%. Gold representation has grown from 7.2% to 8.9%. Platinum has grown from 1.33% to 1.95%. Diamond has grown from 0.36% to 0.71%.

Silver V division has grown fat, and that's a good example of the inflation cause by not being able to drop tiers due to losing. I also find it interesting that Gold+ is still less than the top 13% (~11.6%) of players. So, all those Silver 1 players attempting to promote to gold and finding it frustrating, its going to be hard.

I'm thinking of breaking including the percentile breakdown for the division as well, if anyone is interested. I'm sure there are errors somewhere. Feel free to point them out.

League Distribution 5-29-13 (http://i.imgur.com/DPMA22l.png?1)


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Gabelous

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Diamond has nearly doubled? Still shows the system at large is flawed, but the biggest culprit is still the lack of tier-demotion without any incentive to get better. Silver 5 is fat because I'm sure a lot of players are so ELATED they are out of Bronze they probably just plan to stay there the rest of the season. Played a game with a Silver 5 ADC as Bronze 5 and he was complaining why he always had to play Bronze. I guess he was losing so much his ELO got tanked back down to Bronze V despite his "league standing".

They really should change that tier demotion problem though. The entire point of ranked and "competition" is to continue competing, not so you can sit in one spot and "pretend" to be better than others. I mean wasn't one of the main concept behind this new system was to give some people the opportunity to go pro a la the Challenger Tier? What the hell is the point of a "competition system" when there is a lot less incentive to actively compete once you get to a point?

I mean hey, I'm sorry if something comes up IRL and you can't play for several days or a week but that is part of the whole "competition" thing. Those of us in Bronze and Silver have no excuses really to why we play and lose, so why should the Gold+ players get an excuse to not compete barring playing one game every 28 days and not even having to win?


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Cavo

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Yeah, that seems about correct. As the season goes on diamond and plat are gonna get a bit larger since people will keep breaking into higher tiers. And most people in plat and diamond are in plat and diamond because they like the game and play it a lot. They don't stop playing when they hit a new tier. There may be a small number who do, maybe a couple of people who barely make gold also. It sounds like you're trying to make it seem like high tier players are getting an unfair advantage in some way...? You don't have to play more often than once every 28 days either.


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Ketsumi

Recruiter

06-03-2013

I'm not sure what your gripe is, and I wouldn't say the system "at large" is flawed.

The lack of tier demotion is a known point of inflation and Riot has already acknowledged it. They said they would keep an eye on the numbers to make sure the percentages don't get out of hand. And currently, the percentage of players in Gold and higher are still under their 13% mark, so it's not out of hand in my opinion.

As far as silver 5 being fat, I doubt its because players don't have an incentive to improve. They simply were just good enough to get promoted and haven't been able to progress since. The motive is unknown and unknowable, if there is even a motive at all. A more likely culprit could be boosting. But even then, if a player doesn't belong there, they are just going to lose until their MMR is where it should be. And if they go low enough, they won't be progressing in their division until they can get their MMR up to where is should be (Silver V, Gold V, Plat V, etc.).

I understand the point about the "competition", but no one can actually sit in one spot. A person can earn a tier badge, but their actual MMR tells you where they are. And there is already incentive to continue competing: You will lose LP and drop divisions if you don't play. Granted, you don't have to play that much to keep your standing, but a person shouldn't be required to play all the time without penalty. If you want more "incentive" than that, how do you determine where to set the bar? A month of inactivity is an acceptable window to give players. It is gracious enough to account for temporary bans, vacations, real life emergencies/disasters, etc.

The only people you really have issue with are those in the 5th division of a tier, sans bronze. I get that you don't like the idea of someone "sitting" on their rank, but who cares? So what if they have a badge that says "Silver" if they are really bronze? It wont stop any other player from progressing. If you're worried about people pretending to better than others, just earn the rank yourself and prove your stuff on the Fields of Justice. You don't need to rally for a system change just because of an insecurity about a colored border at the loading screen. If a person earned Silver or Gold, even for a brief moment, they should get their "reward". In any other sport, players keep their trophies even if they can''t repeat the following season, for whatever reason. There's no reason it can't work like that here. It's not like there won't be a Season 4.


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Malk2651

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Quote:
Ketsumi:
I'm not sure what your gripe is, and I wouldn't say the system "at large" is flawed.

The lack of tier demotion is a known point of inflation and Riot has already acknowledged it. They said they would keep an eye on the numbers to make sure the percentages don't get out of hand. And currently, the percentage of players in Gold and higher are still under their 13% mark, so it's not out of hand in my opinion.

As far as silver 5 being fat, I doubt its because players don't have an incentive to improve. They simply were just good enough to get promoted and haven't been able to progress since. The motive is unknown and unknowable, if there is even a motive at all. A more likely culprit could be boosting. But even then, if a player doesn't belong there, they are just going to lose until their MMR is where it should be. And if they go low enough, they won't be progressing in their division until they can get their MMR up to where is should be (Silver V, Gold V, Plat V, etc.).

I understand the point about the "competition", but no one can actually sit in one spot. A person can earn a tier badge, but their actual MMR tells you where they are. And there is already incentive to continue competing: You will lose LP and drop divisions if you don't play. Granted, you don't have to play that much to keep your standing, but a person shouldn't be required to play all the time without penalty. If you want more "incentive" than that, how do you determine where to set the bar? A month of inactivity is an acceptable window to give players. It is gracious enough to account for temporary bans, vacations, real life emergencies/disasters, etc.

The only people you really have issue with are those in the 5th division of a tier, sans bronze. I get that you don't like the idea of someone "sitting" on their rank, but who cares? So what if they have a badge that says "Silver" if they are really bronze? It wont stop any other player from progressing. If you're worried about people pretending to better than others, just earn the rank yourself and prove your stuff on the Fields of Justice. You don't need to rally for a system change just because of an insecurity about a colored border at the loading screen. If a person earned Silver or Gold, even for a brief moment, they should get their "reward". In any other sport, players keep their trophies even if they can''t repeat the following season, for whatever reason. There's no reason it can't work like that here. It's not like there won't be a Season 4.


agreed.


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Gabelous

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Quote:
Ketsumi:
I'm not sure what your gripe is, and I wouldn't say the system "at large" is flawed.

The lack of tier demotion is a known point of inflation and Riot has already acknowledged it. They said they would keep an eye on the numbers to make sure the percentages don't get out of hand. And currently, the percentage of players in Gold and higher are still under their 13% mark, so it's not out of hand in my opinion.

As far as silver 5 being fat, I doubt its because players don't have an incentive to improve. They simply were just good enough to get promoted and haven't been able to progress since. The motive is unknown and unknowable, if there is even a motive at all. A more likely culprit could be boosting. But even then, if a player doesn't belong there, they are just going to lose until their MMR is where it should be. And if they go low enough, they won't be progressing in their division until they can get their MMR up to where is should be (Silver V, Gold V, Plat V, etc.).

I understand the point about the "competition", but no one can actually sit in one spot. A person can earn a tier badge, but their actual MMR tells you where they are. And there is already incentive to continue competing: You will lose LP and drop divisions if you don't play. Granted, you don't have to play that much to keep your standing, but a person shouldn't be required to play all the time without penalty. If you want more "incentive" than that, how do you determine where to set the bar? A month of inactivity is an acceptable window to give players. It is gracious enough to account for temporary bans, vacations, real life emergencies/disasters, etc.

The only people you really have issue with are those in the 5th division of a tier, sans bronze. I get that you don't like the idea of someone "sitting" on their rank, but who cares? So what if they have a badge that says "Silver" if they are really bronze? It wont stop any other player from progressing. If you're worried about people pretending to better than others, just earn the rank yourself and prove your stuff on the Fields of Justice. You don't need to rally for a system change just because of an insecurity about a colored border at the loading screen. If a person earned Silver or Gold, even for a brief moment, they should get their "reward". In any other sport, players keep their trophies even if they can''t repeat the following season, for whatever reason. There's no reason it can't work like that here. It's not like there won't be a Season 4.


A good analogy for the lack of demotion in tiers is like a player playing baseball, say a pitcher, and break into the majors and gets picked up by a team in MLB. Then said player simply doesn't have to try nearly as hard as he did to get in there and still take the huge contract paycheck he got when he got in. If any competitive athlete did that and simply put in minimum effort he most surely wouldn't be allowed to keep his position, job, salary, etc.


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Cavo

Senior Member

06-03-2013

I don't think you follow enough major league sports to realize how often this happens. But, your analogy is hugely flawed and does not represent what's happening. A better analogy, though still not great, would be like players getting into a hall of fame. They earned it, they shouldn't have to keep earning it until, and after, they die.


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Tál

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Quote:
Gabelous:
A good analogy for the lack of demotion in tiers is like a player playing baseball, say a pitcher, and break into the majors and gets picked up by a team in MLB. Then said player simply doesn't have to try nearly as hard as he did to get in there and still take the huge contract paycheck he got when he got in. If any competitive athlete did that and simply put in minimum effort he most surely wouldn't be allowed to keep his position, job, salary, etc.


this isn't a good analogy at all.


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Ketsumi

Recruiter

06-04-2013

Quote:
Gabelous:
A good analogy for the lack of demotion in tiers is like a player playing baseball, say a pitcher, and break into the majors and gets picked up by a team in MLB. Then said player simply doesn't have to try nearly as hard as he did to get in there and still take the huge contract paycheck he got when he got in. If any competitive athlete did that and simply put in minimum effort he most surely wouldn't be allowed to keep his position, job, salary, etc.


That's not really a good analogy. But if you want to roll with that analogy, then you need to assume baseball contracts last 1 season, to make it more comparable to League. Which, if that was the case, would mean the person in your scenario wouldn't get a renewed contract and would not be playing in the majors next season because he's not good enough. Yeah, he'd get his money for the current season. But, he did earn it by getting the attention of management and getting the contract. While it would be pretty poor of him to just quit playing and take a pay check, he wont be around next season to keep collecting money (also, there are all kinds of clauses in contracts to prevent this IRL).

So, just like in that analogy, if someone earned their tier badge, then sat on it, they get their loading screen boarder. But if they choose not to play, for whatever reason, or if they don't really deserve it, they wont be at that rank in the following season because players are placed based on max MMR/Elo and current MMR/elo from the prior season. A player who is at the bottom of Gold V and loses a bunch of games will have a low enough rating for a Silver placement if that's how they end the season.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

06-05-2013

Diamond is expected to grow because nobody started at diamond


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