Mercy Vote? (4v5 and the like)

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Frosthaven

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Upvoting without bumping is a crime

Do you believe that the toxicity of this community should change? Is cultivating a more positive gaming experience important to you? If so read on!



A Brief Look At Toxicity
People are toxic because the tools to be toxic are simple and readily available - the ability to control their character and communicate. Emotions tend to run high, and can negatively impact individuals when things do not go as planned. Over the years I've played the game I've seen a decrease in toxic behavior across the board. I believe that creating tools to be positive is to be credited for this - from the tribunal to the honor system and beyond. I believe that giving more avenues for positive behavior can continue to improve the community as a whole.



The Problem
4v5 games are painful. It isn't fun for me to be on the losing side, knowing I'm about to waste 20+ minutes for no good reason. It isn't fun when I'm on the full team, either. Unbalanced teams take a lot away from the strategic points of this game and lead to something much less interactive. Many players have tried to think of ideas to combat this, but inevitably ideas fail for the following reasons:

  • Too easy to abuse
  • Promotes trolling
  • Offers no incentive to be positive



The Proposal
What I propose, is a mercy slash command or ui element. This command will only be available to the team with 5 people, and only when certain conditions are met: There is a player that has been disconnected or idle for x seconds/minutes, AND the idle/disconnected player would cause unbalanced teams (a 4v4 would not qualify for mercy).

When the team with more players pass a mercy vote successfully, the short handed team will get a vote option popup to accept or decline mercy. If they choose to accept mercy, the game ends immediately. Instead of "Defeat" showing in game and on the match history, it would simply read "Mercy". A mercy would incur less penalty than a defeat for the short handed team - whether it be lp, mmr, etc. The team that passed a mercy vote will also get a nice counter on their profile page next to the honor counters that indicate how many times they have passed mercy on outnumbered enemies.

The short handed team could also vote to decline mercy, and battle on taking their chances. If at any time the dc player reconnects or the idle player becomes active, the mercy vote is immediately nullified.

Now let's get into how this type of system combats the flaws of other ideas brought forth by other users (as represented via bullet points above):
  • Too easy to abuse
    Since it is now the enemy team placing the vote, there is nothing that the 4 man team can do to abuse the system. They do not have the control.
  • Promotes trolling
    This system inherently promotes positive behavior instead. I'm much more likely to pass mercy on a team that remained positive than one that fought in all chat.
  • Offers no incentive to be positive
    This system offers a direct tie-in to the honor system, and can reap any rewards Riot chooses to do in the future (banners, icons, etc). This system mutually benefits everyone, as it allows you to end a game without wasting another 15-20 minutes if both teams use their votes to show that the outcome is already known.



Hot Points Brought Up So Far
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple Leaf 67 View Post
And how do you avoid rampant elo inflation?
This is a question I'd like to target more towards a red if I could, as it's come up a couple of times now in the discussion. I know that as far as an individual's own mmr goes this system over a long period of time would have them placed a bit more accurately to their proper mmr.

One idea to combat inflation, as stated by a couple of posters in this thread, is to simply apply the "floating" mmr loss to the person who left the game as an extra deterrence to afking or leaving. I question how much is too much with this particular idea, but would definitely like a red to get involved one way or another! Personally, I'd imagine something like -25% loss to the four people that stayed, and that -100% total loss that's now floating around could be applied to the leaver. 200% total loss given to the leaver would prevent inflation, and as someone who's experienced a couple power outages in my time (2 over the past two years) I don't think it's too much. After all, not only did you guarantee a loss for yourself but a loss for 4 other people as well! In this scenario, getting counted for losing 2 games if you leave 1 seems fair.

Quote:
Tell me again, how does this prevent someone from just leaving the game and saving people in their promo matches?
Well, it's a voting system. Meaning if I'm on the winning team I'd have to believe that the match was worth a mercy. Not only that, but if I'm on the losing team I have zero interest in taking a 200% penalty just for a chance that random strangers don't get impacted negatively from a lost game. Clearly this is a tool meant for solo queue!


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I truly believe that this tool could ONLY have a positive impact on the player base - allowing us to send out and receive more positive energy. If you agree, please bump. If you disagree, please state why so that we can work together to make this community better!




And now for the epic visualization concepts!

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Here's a mockup variant for allowing mercy at the end of a game:
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REDS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot NeuroCat View Post
I like the concept. One potential problem is that if you offer rewards (reduced LP loss, promo series loss nullification, etc), you create incentives for a team to harass a player performing poorly to leave. Even if the enemy team doesn't actually decide to show mercy or the teammate you harass doesn't actually leave, the tradeoff in the minds of the losing team is:
"I don't harass my teammate and hope they leave" > 'Guarenteed' loss
"I harass my teammate and hope they leave" > Possible mercy, which means potential loss mitigation

The expected value for LP gain increases with teammate harassing behavior in that case.

However, I can't immediately see problems with the system assuming mercy losses count the same as normal losses. This lets you end the game at 10 minutes if its super one sided, without forcing people to AFK in well.
Typically if a player is doing bad enough to get harassed for a mercy drop, the people doing harassing would be doing so even without the mercy system. That's something that the tribunal and report functions are there for, ultimately.

I'd imagine that these particular players, while removing the mercy vote system, would say something like this:
"[ALL]GG Yi lost game report unskilled"

Now whether or not the mercy system would turn otherwise docile players into negative ones? That's something I'm not ready to phone in just yet.

I'll also add that not losing a promo series was a bit of an afterthought, and I haven't really delved into the ramifications of such an extension of the system. I'm sure the corner cases in that situation would be astronomical.


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w0nderw4ll

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Well, Im a good person in real. Hell I'm an Eagle Scout. But I'm a little curious does the team with 5 lose anything? If not then im sure they would /mercy to have there mercy points go up and have the full points. Also the satisfaction of them giving up so they dont have to waste time. I might have read this wrong. If so please tell me and I'll try to respond with a better answer.


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OJ191

Senior Member

06-03-2013

How about when someone has left for more than a set amount of time a vote becomes available which ends the game if both teams agree, winners gain full and losers lose half.

Let's everyone get on with their life and do other stuff, because while it does happen can you honestly tell me it's common to win down on players.


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DementedLord

Senior Member

06-03-2013

only thing worse then 4v5 is 3v5. I feel a lump in my throat every time.


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Teemo Thunder

Senior Member

06-03-2013

No.

It fixes nothing.

Leavers should be punished more.

Harsher punishments for leaving should be put into place.

One thing I recommend is like a little icon next to players' names who leave a lot.

It would be visible in champion select.


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SloMoTurtle

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Senior Member

06-03-2013

Yes, I think it's a good idea to promote good behavior and it fits well with the honor system. There will always be mean people but there is more and more incentive for people to act good. I don't see how your idea could not have only positive results.


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w0nderw4ll

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Bump, If I understand this correctly. I like this idea. And uhm.. Im glad that you honestly think this way because its hard to find people like this < ------ I dont use smiles often. This is a rare occasion.


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Frosthaven

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by w0nderw4ll View Post
Well, Im a good person in real. Hell I'm an Eagle Scout. But I'm a little curious does the team with 5 lose anything? If not then im sure they would /mercy to have there mercy points go up and have the full points. Also the satisfaction of them giving up so they dont have to waste time. I might have read this wrong. If so please tell me and I'll try to respond with a better answer.
The team with 5 wouldn't lose anything. This system would offer incentives to show mercy, while offering no extra rewards or losses. I've considered the idea of having the leaver/afk tally be weighted more if the enemy team has shown mercy, but perhaps that's reaching too far outside the original goal of a system like this.

Please view my updated feedback section for the case of ending the game early and on good terms.


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Frosthaven

Senior Member

06-03-2013

bump for feedback. Please don't just upvote, keep this thing gaining traction if you believe in it by providing a quick response. I am very passionate about improving the quality of this game.


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pheonixboii

Senior Member

06-03-2013

I think it's a good idea =) it will definitely decrease the amount of frustration the community put into this game lol