Aatrox is not a Melee Carry

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TheOneMillion

Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Also:
Aatrox has no AD steroid. His R is his only carry steroid.

See: tryndamere (Bloodlust), Master Yi (wuju style), fiora (parry)
-His E and R are listed as dealing Magic damage. He does not use pure AD ratios. (tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora)
Aatrox's,tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora base steroid does not crit
Aatrox,tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora has AD and AP ratios


See: tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora
.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treeke View Post
I'm thinking He will be a bruiser, just like gangplank is.



Gangplank = Melee, Carry.

Aatrox = Melee, Carry
Gangplank's Q can crit, and he's not typically built carry despite this



Quote:
See: tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora
I put that there for a reason

Aatrox lacks what all the other melee carries have, an AD steroid

he has nothing to offset himself if he doesn't build raw damage.


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Zilong

Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonTwo View Post
Gangplank's Q can crit, and he's not typically built carry despite this





I put that there for a reason

Aatrox lacks what all the other melee carries have, an AD steroid

he has nothing to offset himself if he doesn't build raw damage.
He is pointing out that ad carries (especially the older ones) have ap ratios, which you use as an argument against his "carry" status.


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Chocoßo

Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonTwo View Post
He is an Attack Speed/On-hit Bruiser

Alllow me to explain:

-His passive is not a steroid. it helps him stay alive, but rewards him only for going all out by giving him another lease on life. This is a tanky steroid, that does not scale off damage, but usage.

Aka, building health or life steal rewards more of it, not damage

-His Q cannot crit. it is just a gap closer with physical damage. Crits are what make AD carries scale as hard as they do. If it cannot crit, it cannot carry.

-His W cannot crit, and does not scale solely off AD

TOGGLE OFF: Every 3rd attack, Aatrox restores health. Aatrox restores three times as much if he's below 50% health.

TOGGLE ON: Every 3rd attack, Aatrox deals bonus physical damage at the cost of health.

notice the "Every 3rd attack"? That's an attack speed spell. He scales off ATTACK SPEED. Even if he has AD ratios, we then come to the other issue:

Bonus physical damage does not crit. Bonus attack damage crits, but not bonus physical damage. if it cannot crit, it cannot carry. He has no synergy with infinity edge

-His E and R are listed as dealing Magic damage. He does not use pure AD ratios.

split AD/AP ratios are typical Tanky DPS

Finally:
His R is his only carry steroid. it's also weaker than Master Yi's.. It is along the lines of a tanky DPS Steroid, not a carry steroid.

TL ; DR:
Aatrox scales average off of attack damage, and attack speed
Aatrox has AD and AP ratios
Aatrox's base steroid does not crit
Aatrox is an AS/On-hit Bruiser

You will be building the new wit's end on him, i can assure you.

Also:
Aatrox has no AD steroid.

See: tryndamere (Bloodlust), Master Yi (wuju style), fiora (parry)
you forgot gangplank's ad steroid


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneMillion View Post
Aatrox has no AD steroid. His R is his only carry steroid.

See: tryndamere (Bloodlust), Master Yi (wuju style), fiora (parry)
-His E and R are listed as dealing Magic damage. He does not use pure AD ratios. (tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora)
Aatrox's,tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora base steroid does not crit
Aatrox,tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora has AD and AP ratios


See: tryndamere, Master Yi, fiora

Wow, didn't realize you put your response in a quote.

Okay...

1. Tryndamere scales off Auto attacks. He has 2 steroids, and his ult is a defensive steroid.

he doesn't need spells to do damage, so his AP ratio doesn't matter

2. Master Yi has the largest AS steroid in the game. Like Tryndamere he doesn't need spells to do damage.

3. Fiora has her E....see above. If 90% of their damage is dealt through auto attacks, they don't need AD ratios.

Now that we got past that

Aatrox's steroids are all weaker than Master Yi, Tryndamere, and Fiora's steroids. This means if he builds towards auto attack damage, he will actually do less damage than if they did the same.

period.

Quote:
you forgot gangplank's ad steroid
Gangplank has an AS MS steroid.

I didn't forget, it just didn't roll off the tongue as much. Like other Melee Carries, gangplank does have a steroid

His E, to be precise.

That said, Gangplank isn't typically built carry anymore.


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Vsin

Senior Member

05-19-2013

Tristana's abilities deal nothing but magic damage and she has no straight AD scaling - all she has is an AS steroid. Therefore, she's a bruiser.

...ok, sarcasm aside, what irritates me the most about Atrox is that his W is "on 3 hits" instead of "on hit". Granted, they probably wanted to avoid it being compared directly against Sion's E, but it just strikes me as really odd that he isn't given the ability to charge up his passive EVERY attack, and instead can technically get his ability to charge his passive completely shut down by kiting.

Also, he's definitely not going to be any form of hard carry, simply because he has neither strong defensive steroids (unless his passive heals for an insane amount) nor double-dip scaling (eg: Riven has AD > Defense) nor hyperscaling (ie: DotA's AGI being AS + AD, Nasus' Q scaling off time), nor even uber steroids to give the effect of hyperscaling (eg: Vayne, Kog'maw, Tristana).

At best he might turn out to be a decent fighter, but I definitely don't see much hope for him being our next melee carry.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsin View Post
Tristana's abilities deal nothing but magic damage and she has no straight AD scaling - all she has is an AS steroid. Therefore, she's a bruiser.

...ok, sarcasm aside, what irritates me the most about Atrox is that his W is "on 3 hits" instead of "on hit". Granted, they probably wanted to avoid it being compared directly against Sion's E, but it just strikes me as really odd that he isn't given the ability to charge up his passive EVERY attack, and instead can technically get his ability to charge his passive completely shut down by kiting.

Also, he's definitely not going to be any form of hard carry, simply because he has neither strong defensive steroids (unless his passive heals for an insane amount) nor double-dip scaling (eg: Riven has AD > Defense) nor hyperscaling (ie: DotA's AGI being AS + AD, Nasus' Q scaling off time), nor even uber steroids to give the effect of hyperscaling (eg: Vayne, Kog'maw, Tristana).

At best he might turn out to be a decent fighter, but I definitely don't see much hope for him being our next melee carry.
Okay, allow me to clarify...

It's the fact Aatrox has AD/AP steroids, while having a sub-par steroid, that makes him unable to be a carry. Tristana has no AD ratios, correct.

but she has one of the strongest steroids in the game.

Given Aatrox's W does not give AD, but rather bonus physical damage (aka, damage that cannot crit), it is nowhere near on the same level as say, Master Yi's E. Since his ult is only 45% AS, it's weaker than both master yi and Tristana. by a HUGE margin.


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justJoekingg

Senior Member

05-19-2013

The only incorrect thing I say in that post was the part about magic damage

Magic damage doesn't mean AP.
I've seen plenty of abilities say something like "150 (50% AD) in magic damage.

It doesn't mean that any of his abilities scale with AP, it means his abilities scale with AD but is dealt as magic damage.
But then again until we see whether or not it ad or ap ourselves neither one of us is right.

I was just posting to say that "deals blank as magic damage" doesn't always mean AP


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vApexPredator

Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonTwo View Post
Wow, didn't realize you put your response in a quote.

Okay...

1. Tryndamere scales off Auto attacks. He has 2 steroids, and his ult is a defensive steroid.

he doesn't need spells to do damage, so his AP ratio doesn't matter

2. Master Yi has the largest AS steroid in the game. Like Tryndamere he doesn't need spells to do damage.

3. Fiora has her E....see above. If 90% of their damage is dealt through auto attacks, they don't need AD ratios.

Now that we got past that

Aatrox's steroids are all weaker than Master Yi, Tryndamere, and Fiora's steroids. This means if he builds towards auto attack damage, he will actually do less damage than if they did the same.

period.



Gangplank has an AS MS steroid.

I didn't forget, it just didn't roll off the tongue as much. Like other Melee Carries, gangplank does have a steroid

His E, to be precise.

That said, Gangplank isn't typically built carry anymore.
tristanas As steroid is 90%, master yi's is 80% therefore, not the highest in the game


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Vsin

Senior Member

05-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonTwo View Post
Okay, allow me to clarify...

It's the fact Aatrox has AD/AP steroids, while having a sub-par steroid, that makes him unable to be a carry. Tristana has no AD ratios, correct.

but she has one of the strongest steroids in the game.

Given Aatrox's W does not give AD, but rather bonus physical damage (aka, damage that cannot crit), it is nowhere near on the same level as say, Master Yi's E. Since his ult is only 45% AS, it's weaker than both master yi and Tristana. by a HUGE margin.
You only read my first sentence.


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