Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?

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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
What if Alpha Strike had lower base values but somehow scaled off DPS - Can Master Yi penta-kill your team through a combination of AA's and Alpha's? Isn't that what he's supposed to do?

The other things are like... What if Hexdrinker had a Zeal upgrade? Melee AD Carries are vulnerable to mages mid-game but they can't keep itemizing MR, because otherwise they'll die to physical damage late game.

Stuff like that mostly - still plotting it out.
I like the sound of the latter, but the former is not a melee carry; it's some weird mage who's ability scaling is "AS/crit"...even if melee carry players accept this as legitimate to the class (I wouldn't personally, but that's me), I'm still not sure how it solves the issue inherent to melee carries themselves; less or equal damage to a ranged carry (the high DPS ranged ADCs outdamage all the melee ADCs with similar items...that comes off as problematic to me).

On top of this, their base stat survivability is only marginally better than ranged, while having the gigantic melee disadvantage.

I'll be honest, why can't you just go the route of old Jax? He built glass cannon (and could really only do that), and got survivability by doing so that gave him enough to last through the team-fight (new Jax is very very much more bruiser-esque as he can itemize for CDR and still be just as effective) while dishing out damage at least on par with some ranged ADCs.

He was super weak and bad early game, but a monster if fed late---I thin that's generally what melee carry players want, really; something like old Jax


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Rivini

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
The big problem with executioners, believe it or not, was that it lost lifesteal. Lifesteal gave it a crucial place in a piecemeal crit build and let that build function properly; as far as I can tell, they accidentally destroyed that build for no particular reason.
Just my opinion, but I think it keeping crit chance and adding AD makes more sense for what the item is intended for. Before, it was a blade that didn't add damage on its own (crits aside), which is just weird. I know, it's a fantasy world and a game, but still.

I think they took away its lifesteal because they were nerfing lifesteal as a whole for S3. They really shouldn't have changed its passive and taken away its active. I feel those are what made EC a very effective, yet underrated item. That's why AD champions, particularly melee ones, currently have a hard time laning against high sustain enemies.


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Pokeprof

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Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
We actually killed it because if the item was ever popular enough in an environment where heavy lifesteal was required in lane - the item would have to become one of your first complete items.

Basically, in S3 testing with lanes, everyone just rushed Exec's calling - you had to. It had a similar lane warping scenario to BoRK.

Just because your autoattack is melee, doesn't mean you're a melee champion. Mordekaiser functions quite well at range.
Actually just made a Thread about Mordekaiser and Swain and my thoughts about why they're kinda out of commission atm. Here's the post: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3431633

As far as Malazhar is concerned, I find him to be a VERY powerful champion, with his main problem simply being the fact that he's mostly just misunderstood and doesn't have a lot of the 'I do this, I win' buttons that some of the other champions have. He's got a Win rate currently up there with Rumble, so it shows just how strong he currently is.


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Sayath

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriner View Post
Well the damage can be compensation by a little through transferring it to either her passive, Q or E.

Its just that her R shouldn't be used for damage but for the utility. Many times there are cases where players just spam R for the sake of damage.
If you move the damage to her normal abilities, her lane game becomes vastly stronger. The idea behind Akali is a champion that is supposed to be weak during the laning phase.

That's why Shadow Dance deals the damage it deals. Of course, one could fix this by changing things a little around:

Upon learning Shadow Dance, Akali's MotA & Crescent Slash deal increased damage. Similiar to how Kha'Zix evolves.

Therefore, if you want to move the damage portion away from Shadow Dance, you need to clearly separate her pre-6 and post-6 cases.

My other concern with this is that you are reducing her high point. I kind of like the clear distinction between her snowball multi-kill case and being weak.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

05-10-2013
28 of 40 Riot Posts

Quote:
I'll be honest, why can't you just go the route of old Jax? He built glass cannon (and could really only do that), and got survivability by doing so that gave him enough to last through the team-fight (new Jax is very very much more bruiser-esque as he can itemize for CDR and still be just as effective) while dishing out damage at least on par with some ranged ADCs.

He was super weak and bad early game, but a monster if fed late---I thin that's generally what melee carry players want, really; something like old Jax
If melee carry players simply want a character that can 1v5 an entire team at 45 minutes - that's not a gameplay style we're willing to provide. The melee 'hypercarry' has a lot of fun at the expense of everyone else in the game not mattering, including those on his own team.

There's a reason we remade that version of Jax.

The old Jax wasn't forced to build glass cannon either, you were just doing it poorly if you built anything else, because building damage was also the best way to gain resistances.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
If melee carry players simply want a character that can 1v5 an entire team at 45 minutes - that's not a gameplay style we're willing to provide. The melee 'hypercarry' has a lot of fun at the expense of everyone else in the game not mattering, including those on his own team.

There's a reason we remade that version of Jax.

The old Jax wasn't forced to build glass cannon either, you were just doing it poorly if you built anything else, because building damage was also the best way to gain resistances.
The question:

Is your design team capable of providing the role that Ranged AD currently has to Melee champions?


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Space Wizzard

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Anything on graves, corki or other ranged carries that have fallen off?


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LightEcho

Senior Member

05-10-2013

The melee carries in league I've found its generally homelessness that holds them back.

I play Yi a decent bit and find it surprising that he performs fairly well if the enemy lacks the cc to shut him down, and he has someone on his team to initiate for him. Problem is like i said he just doesn't fit melee auto attackers can;t trade properly in lane, and he can't bring the gank pressure needed from the jungle. Additionally the jungle doesn't provide him with the gold he needs to be threatening or the xp he needs to get sturdier.(most of his defense will come of natural hp and resists per level)

Also the fact that he can't orb walk for **** because his aa frame is screwed up.


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Samflash3

Senior Member

05-10-2013

I've been trying to ask this question - Is there any plans for snowball items? It kinda seems like a noob trap. Why bother getting them when you can save up 200 or 300 gold and get a 1500 gold upgradable item.


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Talon Silverwing

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Senior Member

05-10-2013

@Xypherous this is slightly off-topic but have you or anyone else considered making a support champion that can "ride" around in allied champions?