Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


False Item choices: Statikk Shiv

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

zigwentzag

Senior Member

05-12-2013

i usualy get a static shiv on graves when i know the game isnt going to be over 30 min as its cheaper and gives me that cheap pushing power and atk speed allowing me to max my mid game potential as fast as possible whereass if a game feels like it will go on longer i will definitly go for a pd

this is of course my opinion i dont main adc i main mid and the only adc i really play is graves haha but i personally dont think static shiv is useless it has its place but its a situational item and it requires the user to be able to tell the pace of a game


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eddy01741

Senior Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
PhailRaptor:


Another effect the S3 item overhaul had is a decrease in necessity of Last Whisper. Inb4 downvotes. Let me explain. The item overhaul had the effect on defensive itemization of incentivizing health, and desincentivizing resists. This was furthered by Black Cleaver shifting to become a Buiser item, and the stacks becoming so simple to apply. The combined effect has had the effect of Armor being purchased in lesser quantities. In most games I play, it's pretty rare for anyone to go over 100 Armor anymore, and the person who is at or around 100 Armor is generally the Tank -- the last person the Ranged AD should be attacking in the first place.



Also, LW is inherently worse for ADC than before. Before with the weapon expertise mastery and last whisper (then 40% armor penetration), it gave 46% total armor penetration, applied after flat penetration. However, since late season 1 AD carries have been running flat AD quints and reds, so they get only minimal armor penetration from the sunder mastery (then 6 armor penetration, now 5 armor penetration). So back then you could reasonably expect a carry to have 6 flat armor penetration and 46% armor penetration. On a 200 armor target, relatively common for season 2, they have effectively 109 armor (91 armor penetrated). On a 125 armor target, relatively common for season 3, they would have 67 armor (58 armor penetrated).

Now after the season 3 changes with weapon expertise and last whisper (35% armor penetration), you reach a flat 40% penetration. Sunder gives 5 flat armor penetration too. The purpose of nerfing Void Staff and Last Whisper to 35% was to make up for the flat armor/magic penetration being applied after the percentage, which greatly impacts champions running mpen (all AP casters) and Apen (mainly bruisers and jungelrs and not AD carries). Therefore, you can essentially consider that a nerf to AD carries. Then add on the fact that Last Whisper has increased in price to 2300, negating the price decrease from season 2 to season 3 (2290 in season 2, 2135 to start season 3). On a 200 armor target, common to season 2, they would effectively have 115 armor (85 armor penetrated). On a 125 armor target, common to season 3, they would effectively have 70 armor (55 armor penetrated).

Even on a 80 armor target (approximately a level 16-18 caitlyn (average ADC) with flat armor runes), season 2's LW+mastery setup gives an effective armor of 41.44, while season 3's setup gives 43 armor.

The breakeven point is around 40 armor, when the season 3 mastery+last whisper setup outdoes season 2's setup.

TL;DR: At any reasonable amount of armor (given that you expect to be at least level 13 or so when you get last whisper) season 2's last whisper+mastery setup penetrates more armor than season 3's setup. To boot season 3 last whisper costs more than in season 2 (even if by just a little). Then to beat the dead horse armor isn't particularly effective in season 3 so instead of 200 armor 2500 hp tanks we see 125 armor 3000+ hp tanks.

TL;DR: #2: Season 3 shafted AD carries in terms of penetration. Along with shafting them in terms of attack speed and movement speed, lifesteal, and crit damage. It's pretty obvious why in non-pro games (read: where players aren't godlike at farming and have a team dedicated to letting them farm at all costs) AD carries take so long to come online now.



_______________________

That was all non-sequitur from the actual topic of statikk shiv. I think Statikk shiv is an interesting item and certainly a viable choice, especially since ADC builds are relatively less crit centric than in seasons past (Infinity Edge no longer as absurdly gold efficient, BotRK being favored, etc.).

Just because the pros don't build shiv often doesn't mean it's a bad item either.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RockJockey

Senior Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
Eddy01741:
Just because the pros don't build shiv often doesn't mean it's a bad item either.


I don't follow any pro streamers. This is from personal experience as an ADC as well as from numbers crunching. Statikk Shiv isn't as useful as I believe others think it to be for teamfights in the lategame.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vuther

Senior Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
RockJockey:
I don't follow any pro streamers. This is from personal experience as an ADC as well as from numbers crunching. Statikk Shiv isn't as useful as I believe others think it to be for teamfights in the lategame.

That's my point. It is not bought for teamfights. It's for the lanepushing and poking outside of teamfights.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Banff

Senior Member

05-14-2013

TLDR

WHY?

Because the shiv is not meant to be an end game item! Period. It drastically increases your farm, builds naturally from +gold, and gives you an early/mid game advantage. If you feel that you need more damage in a game that is dragging on, SELL THE ITEM.

It's that simple.

I build a Malady on Teemo top for the early/mid game dominance, but i won't be hanging onto it 50+ later. What kind of game would this be if we could only build Infinity Edges, DeathCap's, and Phantom Dancers.

For what purpose do you think these items exist??? <-----------------------------

It's to gain an advantage over the fool who thinks its OK to rush End Game items. These cheaper items build naturally and give you the edge now. Take advantage of that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DarkCresent

Senior Member

05-14-2013

@PhailRaptor

while i agree with most of your points , sub 100 armor or not u need last whisper on ad carry's - look at LCS , Korean Champions VODS etc they all build last whisper if they get to a 6 item point, and the ad carry build order is still pretty stale for MOST champs, we have seen some creative builds like Blue Ezreal but for 90 % of the champs not much has changed besides BOTRK and Statikk shiv, and i think more needs to be offered in the way of what you trade of for crit's like how BOTRK offers an alternative to BT maybe an item that does small amounts of true dmg like Spirit of the Elder Lizard elder but has high atk speed or high dmg but no CDR , HP regen or mana regen or items that apply stacking dots and reduce healing by like 20 % with high atkspeed but no critchance or AD etc, also although i love Stattik Shiv it is an item you eventually sell and turn into a PD and feels more like a place holder item used situationally e.g. split pushing

i think with the low amount of items you can't get very creative with a AD carry build, however if ur an ap caster you have a ton of cool stuff you can play with same if ur a tank especially since tanks dont have to go full tank and can build ad or ap offensive items, i mean eventhough they changed the dmg of muramana from magic to physical, you can still viabily build it on ap champ it does still work pretty well especially cause of LOW armor values in S3 - i think there is a lot of potential for ad carry items to be expanded in creative ways by giving them special effects instead of critchance


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dark Kuno

Senior Member

05-15-2013

Quote:
PhailRaptor:

That's not to say that I don't agree with you that Ranged AD's are too.... vulnerable. But that has less to do with Ranged AD's being inadequate, and more to do with Bruisers being too effective.


This for the love of god this.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Saors

Junior Member

05-15-2013

I think static Shiv is a great item on certain champs, on GP it's godly


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PhailRaptor

Adjudicator

05-15-2013

Quote:
Saors:
I think static Shiv is a great item on certain champs, on GP it's godly


It is inherently better on melee champions than ranged ones, as melee ones by definition require movement to stay in attack range, where as ranged ones can exploit their range with orb walking to keep the target in range for a much longer period of time while having moved a much smaller distance.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

daydrere

Junior Member

07-03-2013

Having Statikk Shiv can let you deal 200 extra magic damage to 4 people if you crit. It is also cheaper.