Ranked is broken - legitimate reasons why.

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Selcopa

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartcow View Post
You discovered me sir. Whole throughout season 2, I played about 500-700 games. I was stuck in 1100's, 1000's and 900's throughout the WHOLE Season. Then about 2 weeks before season 2 was announced to end, I moved up from around 940's elo to 1360's elo. Yep. It is truly possible that one who "does not" belong in that elo may be stuck at that elo for hundreds of games. It's just the queue system and their luck. Those who haven't gone through this will never know and will never admit. Or are you really gonna say ~500 elo jump in only 1~2 weeks is all a fluke? It's not like I got carried in all the games. My season 2 overall kda is 6.6/6.2/7.6, a positive. So it is safe to say it's not a fluke, ey?
Well its 400 points not 500, kind of a big difference.

Like you said, you were stuck between the 900s and the 1100s, you were at the lower end of your range won some games to 1100, then got a lucky streak to the 1300s, like you said, you played roughly 700 games. Its not unheard of for someone to get a streak like that in 700 games, I played around 1800 games last season and experienced what you described twice actually

Quote:
I am fairly sure that % bull**** was including all of those in the world. Those who can't even speak english so has greatly higher chance of losing. Another friend of mine was in the 900's with me in season 2 and duo'd with me to get out of "ELO Hell" and end up at 1440's. He was only ~10 elo from gold. So you can't just assume that the OP doesn't have the skills.
Ehh you can goto lolsummoners.com and check what it is these days. it was 8% at one point.

EDIT:Currently its top 12% are gold.

Also 1440 is not 10 away, 1500 is gold, and it used to be 1520

Quote:
You have no idea how frequently they appeared in the "Elo Hell". Just playing few games in your freind's bronze account will not give you enough idea about it. Not to mention, I feel that on the weekends or days without schools and bunch of immature students all play league, there is extremely higher chance that you get paired up with toxic players. That's why I tried to stop playing in the weekdays.
How many games would satisfy you? Because between this season and last season, ive played at least 100. Are you saying in 100 games Ive just been lucky with how many trolls I get? Which is amazing because you seem to get them all the time.

Quote:
Vayne top works pretty well because most champs used for the top lanes are tanky characters which will get countered easily by vayne's max hp true damage, and they are mostly melee as well.Twitch Janna bot, diana mid, lee jungle are all solid so you proved nothing there. And you still have no idea what ELO Hell is like do you? In elo hell someone goes a role with a champ that is "supposed" to not go there, they start flaming, rage, troll, threaten to throw/leave whatever. Because they think YOU are the one who is trolling. Please learn about the topic you are going to debate about before actually joining the debate. You don't know what it's like at the Elo hell, at least not as much compared to playing 500+ games down there. I would pick a Vayne top in elo hell, they will go like "Smartcow you **** stop trolling. Report Smartcow, trolling, noob. Dodge. Dodge. I am gonna feed Smartcow better dodge" etc etc etc already a fight in queue they won't even let you pick such strange champs in the lane without getting your team in some massive trolling.
So my jungle ashe is supposed to go there?

The point is, champs can work, in roles they aren't typically designed for, restricting what they play is bad.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tál

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldmaiden85 View Post
The system is broken if you play a support player, hence why everyone plays other roles. The supports role is to get assists, not kills, and ward. If you get kills your adc wont do damage and you hurt your teams overall game. I main support, and am very good at it. However I'm stuck in bronze 2 cuz I wont get kills. For example:
0/4/14, and we lose, I lose 15 pts... 5/4/7 and we lose I lose 5 pts.
Kills are how you play the ranked system. So supports and tanks are broken for proper placement in the system. I believe they need to tweak it and put a line just for the support/tank role. At least separate the Carry and the support/tank in the ranking.

OR

I as a support main am finding in solo Q I have to tank top or jungle... That is leaving me no room to improve my standing with my team. Instead its forcing me to branch out into other lanes and expand my knowledge of them. I still choose to get no kills thus I'm stuck seesawing in the bronze leagues while my main adc duo is advancing in silver. Yet 8 out of 10 games we dominate as a bot. -.- please explain this to me and why do I get all the sucky teams and get put up against silvers and golds all the time??? Yet stay bronze???
Except it doesn't work on KDA


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gabelous

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Instanced matchmaking won't work. What would happen is people would queue in as support to get into a game because it would take longer to queue in as their desired role. They would then proceed to pick the champion they want and do whatever. Also if you clamp on type names a lot of champions who could do a role would be locked out of them.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mach1av3ll1

Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcow
I am fairly sure that % bull**** was including all of those in the world. Those who can't even speak english so has greatly higher chance of losing.
Bahahaha. Oh my god. I was going to write this guy off as an idiot when he listed his fairly **** average kda in bronze last season (ignoring that kda is still how well you do at killing bronze opponents whereas cs is opponent skill neutral mostly) but then I got this gem. Oh my god. How dumb can you be?

First of all it's relative to other players you're playing against as a distribution, so even if you narrow the sample size to just na from a global average of 8% you'd still have roughly 8% of American players being in gold. It's a percentage you idiot. Even if the worlds best players all played what today would get you bronze 1 the top 8% would be gold v or higher. Math, it's op.

Next, I sincerely doubt not speaking English would put you at a disadvantage against other players on the br server or the turkey server. And they're not competing for gold with na players, they're competing with other br and Turkish players.

Jesus Christ. No wonder you don't understand why the lp system works if you can't grasp those basic concepts


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Maxim

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Bump. Still waiting for factual-based arguments and not anger-filled / condescending posts. Since that solves nothing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Selcopa

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alekian View Post
Bump. Still waiting for factual-based arguments and not anger-filled / condescending posts. Since that solves nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alekian View Post
- This is 100% my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.
You are entitled to do it, That doesn't mean its a good one, or that its right.

Quote:
SECTION ONE:

" You are where you belong. " - Obviously, the biggest issues that I have had, and have read here that others have, is the lack of following in matches: lack of communication ( might not even speak english, which is an issue in of itself! ), lack of teamwork, and lack of skill. The lack of communication is extremely detrimental to any match, especially if you are unable to communicate in the same language with your team. I've literally been queued with 4 other individuals who all only spoke spanish. And let me tell you, trying to communicate through pings only goes so far. Not to mention, you're isolated immediately. Furthermore, communicating that an enemy is missing from a lane has also become, as one particular person put it, " waste of time when you should be watching the map all the time. " How am I supposed to watch the map when I need to focus on my lane, it's situation, ensuring last hits upon my CS, etc? This is why pings were created, and text in chat called " MIA. "
I've yet to discover a player who was stuck at a level they don't belong in the short term its entirely possible to be at a level when you can play higher, but after about 100 games its extremely unlikely that you are still stuck at a level you don't belong, if you aren't climbing or haven't climbed4 after that much time. You are at a pretty good representation of your skill

Quote:
This rolls into the second, teamwork. Everyone is out for themselves in Ranked. Why? KDA. No offense, but screw KDA. No communication; not everyone all on board with a team fight or focus because you're worried about KDA? Then everyone dies or an objective is lost. Some people intentionally pick champions that are " dependant on kills " with the clear intention of trying to 1-man carry a game. While yes, particular " hyper-carry " champions can make a game for you, that isn't " working as a team " - fairly sure League Of Legends is a TEAM game. With that type of mentality on your team, 8 out of 10 times, from experience, you're going to lose. VERY SELECT FEW INDIVIDUALS, -NOT- CHAMPIONS, can 4v1/5v1 on a hyper carry without at least SOME form of assistance from your team. I don't care how good you think you are, that is fact.
The players who do whatever it takes to win, instead of focusing on their KDA, will work their way out of the mmr where players only care about kda, some people do care about kda, but they will lose games that players focused on winning games wont lose.

Quote:
Which rolls into skill. This game is filled with egos. It's part of a competitive game. But sometimes you've got to swallow your ego and go for the bigger objective - victory. I typically play a carry, APC or ADC - and if I've had a rough time in a lane, but my opposing carry has snowballed .. the objective immediately becomes what? You PROTECT that carry at all costs. They are going to be the one that has the most damage, and can make a team fight swing in your favor. If you've lost your lane, but Dragon just came up - switch gears and balance the scales by taking Dragon. So many individuals in Ranked forget about larger objectives / goals and focus on roaming and killing. Kills don't amount to jack if nobody works together. Furthermore, your KDA means JACK if you can't synergize with your team.
Those that do this, move up, those who don't, probably wont.

Quote:
SIDENOTE: I'm not saying, by the way, that it's 100% toxic or " unskilled " players. Everyone has a bad day; people get counter'ed in this game, hence' a strategy game. It happens. But I've played in, and seen professional games where a lane or lanes have been lost, or a champ has been fed, and that team came back and won. It only takes one team fight to change it around, which so many people forget - the common theme is " well, he fed, gg. " People have to stop immediately shutting down, and focus on the team fighting aspect. You CAN come back. Difficult? Yes. But CAN be done.
That's why players who don't surrender as often will eventually move up, and yes I know they can surrender without your vote, but if you always vote no, you will surrender far less games that are still possible to win

Quote:
" You need to improve yourself " - I don't claim to be " pro " - and I want that to be made crystal clear right now; I was placed into Silver II after my first 10 games, and have dropped to Silver IV due to a series of unfortunate circumstances; most call it " ELO Hell. "
If it truly was unfortunate circumstances, and not just a lack of skill, then continue to play, and you will win games because of your skill, and combined with fortunate circumstances you will shoot right back to where you belong and possibly beyond
Quote:
Do I feel I should be in Gold, perhaps farther? Yes, I do.
Its highly likely that you do not even comprehend the level of skill required for gold, gold is around top 8%? There is so much background knowledge required to be able to respond to the plethora of situations you might face, and without that information, you just are going to be constantly put at disadvantages until you have the experience to handle them.

Fact of the matter is, you barely have 600 games played in your career. While its possible you improve faster(and the fact that gold is a much higher % of players now) it took me at least 1500 games to reach gold(including normal) having great mechanics can help you, but the simple fact is you simply do not have the experience to even realize how well rounded you need to be to get to gold


Quote:
In short, improving myself doesn't fix a toxic teammate from steamrolling your team to defeat. I can't control a troll from feeding a game. I can't stop an ego-rampant player from not playing as a team. I could be Challenger Rank - doesn't make another person want to work together or communicate effectively any more or less than if I was Bronze.
Toxic players occur, but not near at the frequency you need them to for this concept of elo hell to have any merit, in reality a match starts going sour and the player's toxicity rises, I experience significantly less toxic players on my friend's bronze account than he does, because i'm able to dominate my lane enough that players still feel we have a chance to win. If you were a better player, your teammates would rage less, and you would win more games.

Quote:
SECTION TWO:

How can this problem be fixed for Season 4? It's simple: two systems needs to be implemented. The first system, needs to be an " instanced matchmaking ", as it's typically called, for Ranked play. For any gamer who has played an MMO, this is a godsend and remedies 80 to 90% of issues. Instanced Matchmaking would allow an individual to choose what role they'd like to play, and then be paired with players who picked their specialized role respectively. This eliminates your pre-game chat argument of " I called this " versus " I'm higher pick order " completely, and eliminates the pre-rage of emotion before the game has even started. Now, don't get me wrong - I fully endorse that anyone who plays Ranked should at bare minimum know how to play 2 different roles, preferably 3. But you should NOT have to know every role to play Ranked. There are far too many champions, different skill kits, item builds, etc for one individual to be able to effectively play them all; going back to the skill factor here. EXAMPLE: Fairly sure I don't see Krepo going Mid over Froggen, while Snoopeh goes ADC. Not to say that they can't, because I'm fairly sure they have in rare instances, but they specialize in the role they're in for a reason. They CHOSE to master that role, because each role in League is specialized for each player's mindset and style of play. Instanced Matchmaking would promote this 110% and eliminate almost all pre-game and early game emotions, including toxic behavior, ie. TROLLING.
Can I play Vayne as a top laner? Because literally my last match played, in Diamond 1, we ran Vayne top, Twitch Janna bot, Diana mid and Lee jungle, no trolling at all, we stomped the enemy team.

You now run into the problem, either you allow players to queue up as vayne for top lane, or you inhibit the meta by restricting champions to specific roles.

I also stomped a game with a jungle ashe on my team and an ADC Lulu, ive won games running 3 support champions in different lanes too.

You cant queue up for a specific role unless you leave all the champions open to play all the roles, and then if you do, you haven't really accomplished anything, people can pick any champion and goto any lane they want.

Quote:
The second feature that needs to be implemented is a team-wide ( vote ) dodge. This would, as a fail-safe for the Instanced Matchmaking, eliminate the other remnants of toxic behavior, by allowing a team to safely dodge an already toxic behavior WITHOUT being penalized through a defeat and a loss of League Points. I speak for many, and I say this very sarcastically, enjoy nothing more than currently queuing into a game where one to two individuals find it hilarious to not follow meta and go dual top in a ranked game, or to troll Sona Jungle. Not even playing, true story. This feature could even have a cooldown of once an hour - but this would give someone the time to regain their bearings if they were heated from the situation and go into another game. Because, let's face it - a decent percentage of games are lost because players come into a match already unfocused and angry. We've all been a victim of it, and we've all done it at some point or another out of spite.
The 3 LP is hardly a big deal when you are gaining 15-25 points for a win. Having the ability to dodge games before they start creates a system that is susceptible to micromanaging via Nash Equilibrium and that's something we cannot have for the system to be an accurate representation of relative skill

Quote:
IN CLOSING:

Why did I take the time to write all this? Quite frankly I just had some spare time on my hands. But after continuously, day after day, reading the Competitive Play forums and seeing the constant clash between egoists/elitists and competitive/casual players over the same two arguments over and over and OVER, it's time someone actually laid out the " why's " from the competitive/casual side. No system is ever going to be perfect, but at it's current state in Season 3, Ranked is broken. My personal message to Riot? STOP releasing new champions, and START fixing your Ranked system. It'd do your community a hell of a lot of good.

Sincerely,
A loyal League player.

P.S - If you agree, upvote this. Maybe if we get up there, Riot will take note. Thanks for any support ahead of time. <3
The reason there is a clash is because the casual players don't know enough about the system to have an accurate understanding of it or a good opinion of it(such as yourself) if they actually took the time to place the blame on themselves and figure out how to move up the ranks, they would become what you like to call "throne sitters"

But improving doesn't happen on accident, and it takes hard work, people don't want to work to get better at a free game, so instead the try to blame the system instead, they should be higher ranked, but they aren't, not because its their fault but because its the system's fault, some players grow up and realize this is wrong and stupid, and they get better. The rest hang around the low elos


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tál

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alekian View Post
Bump. Still waiting for factual-based arguments and not anger-filled / condescending posts. Since that solves nothing.
This is 100% my opinion and I guarantee I'm more than likely correct.

You blame your teammates for your losses. Regardless of situation, you were perfect and you couldn't do anything more. This is 100% non condescending, you need to learn that ELO is in your hands and no one else. If you were put into a game a few divisions higher than you, you would struggle and drop so fast


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

montyElGato

Senior Member

05-11-2013

The only thing I will comment on is the stupid suggestion about "instanced matchmaking" (I think that's the term the OP used.)

This gets suggested alot, and it's a terrible idea. There are two huge problems with it, both related to the fact that it "assumes" the currently popular metagame idea:

1. Can you play any champion in any "role"?
2. What are the "roles"? What if you want to play duo-top? What if you want to have two supports?

You want to make a formal system out of the dumb ideas people have: "WTF! You can't play that champion mid, he's a jungler!" Stuff like that. "Vayne is an ADC, you can't play her top!" Etc.

"Duo top WTF, no jungler!?" Sometimes it works good.

The "meta" should NEVER be enforced, it would make the game stale and stupid. Not just "what champions are what roles", but even further: "The roles!" are the issue. The "roles" don't exist. They're just ideas about how to play, and the ones you have in mind just happen to be the currently popular ideas. They weren't always the same, and they will change in the future.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Poofums

Member

05-12-2013

See, I was at 900 once upon a time but then I decided I actually suck at the game and needed to improve in ranked. Instead of worrying about things I can't control, I bettered myself as a person. Mathematically I'll get more trolls/afkers/issues then the enemy team so long as I'm not an issue, so I'll continue to do my best and master what is within MY power.

At 1300 now and if I quit climbing, I need to be better for myself and for the future teams I'm in. That is something I can do and that will help me get higher. If I do keep climbing, then I deserve to get higher. Instead of saying, "I deserve to be in Gold." that little thing that rings in the back of my mind, I pick out my flaws and get better. I don't complain about things outside of my control.

If you are good enough to win your lane, take down the turret and gank take the next turret, immediately help your teammates out. Watch some of the LCS and see how 5 minute turrets happen, objectives objectives objectives. So long as you don't push your snowballing into other lanes, you're also not being a team player and coordinated with your team. If this is something you can't do because you didn't win your lane or you couldn't effectively snowball the other lanes, then this sounds like something within your control that you can improve on.

Watch replays of yourself and don't ask what you did wrong, figure out what you didn't do right. You got first blood, cool, but what if you shoved minions into turret BEFORE you B'd to push the advantage farther? Everyone seems to be in this mindset that I did "okay" in my lane, and because I simply did "okay" and we lost, someone must have sucked, it wasn't "my fault". It's never, "I didn't do great", "I could've done ____" or simply, the enemy team is better then were I'm at. League can have the best ranking system in the world, and it still wouldn't be fair so long as you don't recognize your flaws in playing, not flaws because you're a bad player, but flaws because most people reading this forum is no Challenger Tier player.

Not sure why I typed all that when it feels like you'll just skip over this, too many threads I've spent a lot of time in a honest post just for the OP to not read it at all because they don't want to hear it... but try to take this to heart even a little.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tál

Senior Member

05-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poofums View Post
See, I was at 900 once upon a time but then I decided I actually suck at the game and needed to improve in ranked. Instead of worrying about things I can't control, I bettered myself as a person. Mathematically I'll get more trolls/afkers/issues then the enemy team so long as I'm not an issue, so I'll continue to do my best and master what is within MY power.

At 1300 now and if I quit climbing, I need to be better for myself and for the future teams I'm in. That is something I can do and that will help me get higher. If I do keep climbing, then I deserve to get higher. Instead of saying, "I deserve to be in Gold." that little thing that rings in the back of my mind, I pick out my flaws and get better. I don't complain about things outside of my control.

If you are good enough to win your lane, take down the turret and gank take the next turret, immediately help your teammates out. Watch some of the LCS and see how 5 minute turrets happen, objectives objectives objectives. So long as you don't push your snowballing into other lanes, you're also not being a team player and coordinated with your team. If this is something you can't do because you didn't win your lane or you couldn't effectively snowball the other lanes, then this sounds like something within your control that you can improve on.

Watch replays of yourself and don't ask what you did wrong, figure out what you didn't do right. You got first blood, cool, but what if you shoved minions into turret BEFORE you B'd to push the advantage farther? Everyone seems to be in this mindset that I did "okay" in my lane, and because I simply did "okay" and we lost, someone must have sucked, it wasn't "my fault". It's never, "I didn't do great", "I could've done ____" or simply, the enemy team is better then were I'm at. League can have the best ranking system in the world, and it still wouldn't be fair so long as you don't recognize your flaws in playing, not flaws because you're a bad player, but flaws because most people reading this forum is no Challenger Tier player.

Not sure why I typed all that when it feels like you'll just skip over this, too many threads I've spent a lot of time in a honest post just for the OP to not read it at all because they don't want to hear it... but try to take this to heart even a little.
"gg my team trolls"


123