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New 3.07 Elise vs Old Elise in the JUNGLE

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KiyoSpirit

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Was curious about how much the nerf would affect her in the jungle, so I did a some trial runs. I let my spiders tank for me whenever I could.

The nerf gets rid of her MR and Armor when in spider form.

For the rune page, I would have liked to go with 9x straight armor runes instead of scaling ones, but unfortunately my jungle rune page is not complete yet.

679549

679550

Start: Hunter's Machete, 5 Health pots

Jungle Path: Blue Golem --> Wolves --> Wraiths --> Double Golems --> Red Lizard

Live Server (Current Health/Total Health)

Remaining Health Pots: 3

474/711
570/711
534/711
503/711
599/711
546/711

Average: 537.67

PBE

Remaining Health Pots: 3

332/711
313/711
355/711
302/711
457/711
364/711

Average: 353.83

Difference: 183.84
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Elise's spiderlings can tank most of the damage, with the exception of the two buffs, where Elise will have to take a couple hits herself.

A difference of 183.84 is quite a lot at low levels. A health pot won't make up all the difference. However, I don't see this affecting her overall jungling ability too drastically since there are still 3 more health pots in reserve.

Mid and late game is a different story. Elise needs to be in her spider form the majority of the time during fights. Now she can't get as much damage out while blowing up extremely quickly. It can be argued that since Elise needed damage nerfs, this IS a nerf to her damage because she won't be alive for as long. However, why not just straight up nerf her damage instead of going in a round about way?

I would suggest that 10 MR and Armor should be given to Elise in her spider form and it should not scale up as she levels it. This would help maintain her current jungling efficiency while decreasing some of her tankiness and therefore total damage later on.


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KiyoSpirit

Senior Member

05-08-2013

bump


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PerformingCircus

Senior Member

05-09-2013

I agree completely. I think this nerf is completely unnecessary. That's her ultimate. Elise doesn't get an amazing, game changing move like others do. The extra defensive capabilities help balance the fact she does not have a true ultimate, and that her spiderlings die too quickly. The spiderlings are a passive. Why should the ult affect the passive and not the actual character anyway?

As an Elise main, I'm worried that this is going to really hurt her jungle and team fight phases immensely.

I mean, why even take a point in the ultimate anymore? It it's just gonna help out spiderlings that die too quickly in the first place and nothing more, then there's no reason to level it up.


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Stvn0603

Senior Member

05-09-2013

This is good. Hope a red posts here soon.


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Sabortoothsloth

Member

05-09-2013

bump unnecessary change...


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Hidden Dragon

Senior Member

05-10-2013

There's pretty much no reason to level up Elise's ultimate in its new form. Her spider form spells don't scale with it, and now her defenses don't scale with it.

Her spiderling damage is unreliable and her spiderlings are far too fragile to do anything in a teamfight.

I don't disagree with Elise needing a nerf, but making her ultimate her weakest spell to the point of it not even being worth leveling up is not the right way to go about it.


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turulHAARP

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Hidden Dragon:

Her spiderling damage is unreliable and her spiderlings are far too fragile to do anything in a teamfight.


Woah,careful what you are saying there.


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Noric

Senior Member

05-10-2013

I'm not quite sure why this is that big of a deal if she still clears with 3 hp pots left. I am not saying that jungle elise isn't going to suffer because lane elise so so good - but that clear seems well within the bounds of viable.

edit: to clearify - I am confused by your observations versus recommendation. You say that her initial clear is fine but her tankiness later hurts - yet you suggest adding something at lvl 1 and not anything that scales later. That sounds like its just going to make her lvl 1 more than fine and not make the largest impact later. Why not add scaling per lvl up in the ult with no base?


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KiyoSpirit

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Noric:
I'm not quite sure why this is that big of a deal if she still clears with 3 hp pots left. I am not saying that jungle elise isn't going to suffer because lane elise so so good - but that clear seems well within the bounds of viable.

edit: to clearify - I am confused by your observations versus recommendation. You say that her initial clear is fine but her tankiness later hurts - yet you suggest adding something at lvl 1 and not anything that scales later. That sounds like its just going to make her lvl 1 more than fine and not make the largest impact later. Why not add scaling per lvl up in the ult with no base?


Giving Elise any amount of tankiness back would help her. Riot clearly doesn't want it to scale, so that is why I proposed a flat amount.

I'd like to give Elise back the strong early game she has if Riot wants her to blow up late game.


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Theedge634

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
KiyoSpirit:
Giving Elise any amount of tankiness back would help her. Riot clearly doesn't want it to scale, so that is why I proposed a flat amount.

I'd like to give Elise back the strong early game she has if Riot wants her to blow up late game.


So I guess it's just gonna be out of the question for riot to allow some sort of bruiser mage then. I will likely refund her if their intent is to turn her into a glass girl. She neither has the range, nor the utility to be worth anything without some tankiness. The solution for her is fairly simple in my opinion. Drop her base q to 6%, up the base damage on neurotoxin back to pre-nerf level, and have it scale 3.5% instead of 3%... or maybe try 4%. This makes a player CHOOSE whether they want more tankiness, or whether they would like to gain more damage.

She needs number tweaking, but not in the defensive category. It needs to be turned into a choice by the players, whether they want to go off-tank, or glass cannon. Her late game is nothing extraordinary, so let's fix her laning without slapping her mid-late game in the face please.


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