Heimerdinger

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godknowzwho

Member

05-06-2013

Heimerdinger is a character that is often overlooked, and he is fun. If possible should Riot give him a buff or something for late game? He is squishy but he is also not the strongest ap. Maybe buff the AP ratios, or fix something. Any thoughts?


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thatsze

Member

05-06-2013

See hiemer is a very hard champ too balance because in season 1 he had absolute lane control and could push like nobodies business so if we was good at all he would be toxic to the enviroment.
Riot has been saying theyre going to "rework" him for like 8 months now and i can doubt that anything is going to happen anytime soon about hiemer sadly


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

05-07-2013

They have actually been saying they were in the middle of reworking him on and off for well over 2 years... And as for the most recent talk of his rework, mostly sparked by partial leaked dev patch notes from last July showing some details for a test version of Heimer, the first thing Riot said about it after that was when Morello said at the end of S2 that Karma and Heimer were the next 2 major champion remake projects scheduled (not just art or slight gameplay tweaks, but needing the whole package and total remake of their abilities, like Eve did), and also that Heimer wouldn't be out until well into S3 because they had some other stuff lined up first, the most important of which was the changes for S3 and dealing with balancing everything for those.

Though it looks like he really IS getting his rework this time... Morello said very recently that the gameplay part of his rework was being finished up right after the Freljord patch was done, and there is very recent VIDEO of Heimerdinger with reworked turrets playing on a preview of the new map. 3 turrets again, some kind of extra long range blast shot they can shoot besides the regular shots, staying up after his death, and with a particle around them that seems to indicate charge for the blasts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G1GQgrnSV8

Morello said his art was not next though, most likely there is another champ in line first, possibly Sion, or maybe lore/art for the new map. But it really looks like Heimer's long awaited rework is finally ACTUALLY coming soon. And not just 'coming soon'(tm) like it's been for nearly 3 years now.


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Fuc3master

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Dude, that's not the new Heimerdinger, that's his Hot Rod skin.


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Baval

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuc3master View Post
Dude, that's not the new Heimerdinger, that's his Hot Rod skin.
no, thats the new heimer IN his Piltover Customs skin


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuc3master View Post
Dude, that's not the new Heimerdinger, that's his Hot Rod skin.
I know what his Piltover Customs skin looks like... Watch again carefully, look closely at the turrets and what they do... there's a different kind of very long range shot they are shooting occasionally with a bright blue energy blast kind of particle, as well as the regular cannonballs, and count them, there are 3... The particle floating around them is new too, also notice near the end of the vid, he dies and his turrets stay up.


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godknowzwho

Member

05-07-2013

I don't like the energy blast, takes away from the way the turrets work. The new suggested rockets are messed up though, the homing to cursor doesn't seem fun. He is supposed to be based on his turrets. up their speed/health or something.


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

05-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by godknowzwho View Post
I don't like the energy blast, takes away from the way the turrets work. The new suggested rockets are messed up though, the homing to cursor doesn't seem fun. He is supposed to be based on his turrets. up their speed/health or something.
How so? They still have the same machine guns... the extra blast is just there so they aren't so useless in team fights... just makes them more likely to be able to do something after champs move away from the guns or before they are destroyed... they really need something extra like that so they can not be so unreliable and easy to totally counter in fights. Turrets have a very high mana cost and cooldown, a long cast time, and are supposed to the focus of his damage... they should be good for more than just a couple of machine gun shots that hit for a total of about 300-400 damage when he casts them in a fight against anyone who can actually play.

That's been his problem all along really, even when his turrets had better range and damage, they were still too unreliable late game in fights. Even at his strongest, he was considered totally useless for anything but poking and backdooring after 15 minutes... His new turrets will have even better effective range and damage in fights than his old ones did, the blast will let them add to his damage more reliably whenever they are anywhere around in a fight. Making them stronger late is the only way he can remain focused around his turrets, but just improving their regular shots all the time would make them way too powerful in lane again.

Those new rockets aren't confirmed though... but personally I wouldn't mind being to aim them at least a little bit late game... There's nothing more frustrating than being close to a champ and in rocket range to kill them easily, but your rockets all deciding to hit minions that are the same exact distance behind you instead... His current rockets are effectively ENTIRELY useless any time there are monsters or minions anywhere around, even behind him... they aren't just blocked by them like other abilities. It makes rockets too conditional and hard to pull off when you really need them, especially when you consider that most of the rest of his damage relies on you walking right up to him and into his turrets basically...


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67chrome

Senior Member

05-08-2013

Buffing Heimerdinger's AP ratios as a band-aid fix wouldn't be the greatest solution - his problem isn't ratios, it's having a very binery play style. He's either completly broken or useless, with pretty much no wiggle room.

One way to see how buffs and nerfs could effect champions in the wrong way is by looking at how they perform in Dominion, Twisted Treelines, an Howling Abyss - as all those maps seem to emphasize a smaller portion of Summoner's Rift game-play. And Heimerdinger carries one of, if not thee highest win rate in both Howling Abyss and Dominion - largely because both maps have less lanes to defend, and Heimerdinger's lanning phase is one of the most amazing in the game. His problems largely have to do with high-mobility and widespread AoE damage in team-fights. He's great when he doesn't have to move around, but has issues when needing to re-locate. Which AP ratios wouldn't help with at all. Same deal with the AoE damage.

He needs to be able to be more adaptable to situations without making zones impenetrable fortresses, which Evolnemesis's post on his re-work seems to allude to Riot working on with Heimerdinger's re-work.


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

05-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Buffing Heimerdinger's AP ratios as a band-aid fix wouldn't be the greatest solution - his problem isn't ratios, it's having a very binery play style. He's either completly broken or useless, with pretty much no wiggle room.

One way to see how buffs and nerfs could effect champions in the wrong way is by looking at how they perform in Dominion, Twisted Treelines, an Howling Abyss - as all those maps seem to emphasize a smaller portion of Summoner's Rift game-play. And Heimerdinger carries one of, if not thee highest win rate in both Howling Abyss and Dominion - largely because both maps have less lanes to defend, and Heimerdinger's lanning phase is one of the most amazing in the game. His problems largely have to do with high-mobility and widespread AoE damage in team-fights. He's great when he doesn't have to move around, but has issues when needing to re-locate. Which AP ratios wouldn't help with at all. Same deal with the AoE damage.

He needs to be able to be more adaptable to situations without making zones impenetrable fortresses, which Evolnemesis's post on his re-work seems to allude to Riot working on with Heimerdinger's re-work.
He actually does need better AP scaling too; They had to nerf it all game by ridiculous amounts just to fix his laning problems, and a champ as slow, risky, and squishy as he is needs to have at least some actually strong abilities. If you look closely at the numbers in that rework and do the math on them you will see that they greatly increase his total burst AP ratio, allow rockets to do up to twice as much single target damage on a regular cast, give him potentially HUGE additional damage from his ult, and even raise his turrets' total AP ratio while ALSO adding a burst damage ability to each one too which adds even MORE AP scaling... It really does look like they intend to give him back a LOT of damage.

But I totally agree that his real problem isn't actually damage ratios, it's what it's always been... there are too many things unreliable about his abilities the way they are now, which he is not getting anything in return for. When he just had better AP ratios and range as a way to make up for it, it didn't actually help him late... He was still considered very bad in team fights even when he had almost TWICE as much damage as he has now...

What they want to give him in this rework seems to be a mixture of much of his lost damage, and making his abilities and cc all work more reliably in fights. What they DON'T want, is to make his laning much stronger than it is now... It actually looks like it won't be weaker though, just a little more bursty and a little less safe. His zoning and harass will still be strong. All in all, it looks like he's getting a straight up UPGRADE!!!


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