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Guardians Horn discussion time.

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Beravin

Senior Member

05-07-2013

I dislike the Horn, and I have more than a few reasons for this... Here are some of those reasons:

1. The stats / active are not cost effective. I'll usually just sell the item later because it becomes obsolete fairly fast. Item slots are important when you have so much gold, and this item has no late game upgrades or build paths.

2. The Guardian's Horn is an early game item... But, at the same time, most of the champions who want it are terrible at the start anyway. I mean, there is no point in having this item if you lack the offense / defense to actually make use of it.

3. Why would I want it in the first place? Shurelia's Reverie is pretty much identical, but it has better stats and a better active. For a slightly higher cost, I can give that movement boost to my entire team - not just to my own champion.

Of course, these are just my opinions. If the Guardian's Horn works for you, then go ahead - use it.


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Kalarepa

Senior Member

05-07-2013

At first I thought, GH is trash, but now I think it's pretty good. The CD is refreshing pretty fast, very often you can use it twice in team fight.
It also depends, does your team have better poke. If yes, you should probably go for Emblem of Valor, just chill, regen their HP and stop enemy initiation if needed (I'm assuming, we are talking about you as a tank).
But if your team can't outpoke/outheal them, I don't think Emblem will be enough survive. You will probably need to initiate some fights and GH helps a lot with that.


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FDru

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Guardian's Horn is great, even at level 3. But the tradeoff for the awesome active is that you will have **** for sustain (no pots + measly hp/5 = die and buy real regen items right away).

If I'm playing a tank and I'm planning to use this I'll die and get a Philo stone as soon as I have the gold for it. Then I'll turn that into Eleisa's and buy another philo stone, then aegis. All the HP regen items.


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kikleon

Junior Member

05-07-2013

It depends a lot on the team comp and champion.

If I am playing say, amumu, I would get the GH for the increased regen/armor when I initiate. Or If I am playing udyr, he has a decent initiation from the bushes with the speed increase of bear + GH, get a stun on one of the other teams ranged characters and if your team follows up it should be a kill.

Getting emblem of valor on a melee, all in kind of guy is iffy as you do tend to die. Then your team is without the aura for the interim. I prefer getting valor on a support type like soraka/sona/jana, or on melee IFF your team is poke/ranged heavy and the other team has strong disengage. No point running at them as udyr if they have a taric/janna/ez/cait team. Instead I would go emblem on udyr and peel for my teammates as I sit in the back lines waiting for the other team to initiate.

Whenever I get emblem of valor I usually always pair it with philo's stone.


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kikleon

Junior Member

05-07-2013

Quote:
Warrrrax:
You go boots,belt? With no pots or HP regen of any kind?


giant's belt gets you 380 hp. If you got the horn instead, it would take 1 min 44 seconds after taking damage for the regen from the horn to heal more than the extra 200 hp you would have (taking into effect the healing debuff).

Further, getting an early giant's belt let's you get an earlier sunfire. Since sunfire does flat damage, it is more powerful the earlier you get it. People both have less magic resist than later and less hp, so each tick does a higher percent of their life as damage.

Also, the healing relics heal you for a percent of your max hp according to: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Health_Relic

so belt get's you healed for more.

I would go horn over boots + belt if I played a champion that could benefit from the health regen more... like lee sin who may be able to get in and out of fights. A melee that is more all-in is likely to be too low after the first fight and may as well die.


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PerfidiousAlbion

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Quote:
kikleon:
giant's belt gets you 380 hp. If you got the horn instead, it would take 1 min 44 seconds after taking damage for the regen from the horn to heal more than the extra 200 hp you would have (taking into effect the healing debuff).

Further, getting an early giant's belt let's you get an earlier sunfire. Since sunfire does flat damage, it is more powerful the earlier you get it. People both have less magic resist than later and less hp, so each tick does a higher percent of their life as damage.

Also, the healing relics heal you for a percent of your max hp according to: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Health_Relic

so belt get's you healed for more.

I would go horn over boots + belt if I played a champion that could benefit from the health regen more... like lee sin who may be able to get in and out of fights. A melee that is more all-in is likely to be too low after the first fight and may as well die.


You make it seem like 1min 44sec is a long time to survive after having been poked. I find that's quite easily done for the first half of the match. You're also completely ignoring the extremely potent and very low cooldown active. You're also assuming that you'll be getting much in the way of health relics. Until you hit mid game they are hotly contested, and frequently someone else on your team will be in greater need than you, which is further utility offered by GH.

Guardian's Horn is definitely an early game item, and will usually be a better early game item than Giant's Belt unless you're planning on forcing an early team fight, though even then the additional resistances might make it more favourable. It's early game strength will often lead to you getting more experience and gold initially. I would generally prefer to get GH/Emblem as my first item with boots, get whichever of those two that I hadn't initially started with, then rush Aegis before I ever worry about an item like Sunfire or Randuins. It's rare that I find myself wanting to build Sunfire as Aegis/Bulwark are far better for your team, and Randuin's is perfectly fine being your second big item.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Sunfire is pretty bad on ARAM, though. There are better items in most cases. It's better on SR since it helps splitpushing. On ARAM, you will very seldom have to push alone as a tank, which means that that aspect is pretty much wasted.

Guardian's Horn seems quite good, but I'd usually get Emblem of Valor before I get that item. The active move speed is really nice for melee champions.

Also, Locket of the Iron Solari? Great item on this map. Aegis/Bulwark too, of course, but that's pretty much a given. I'd argue that Bulwark/Locket/Guardian's Horn is a good core for many tanks.


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Warrrrax

Senior Member

05-07-2013

Quote:
kikleon:
giant's belt gets you 380 hp. If you got the horn instead, it would take 1 min 44 seconds after taking damage for the regen from the horn to heal more than the extra 200 hp you would have (taking into effect the healing debuff).


This argument seems to support my view more than yours. Are you saying that you tend to last less than 1 min, 44 seconds before feeding in an average ARAM game, therefore belt being more efficient??

Most ARAMs are done in 20 minutes or so, not enough time for a full build. Even my longer matches rarely end in a true full up build. So slot limitations arent that big of a deal for quite a while.
You dont see people avoiding Dorans in SR due because OMG they take a slot!11

As such, saving a slot is a pretty weak reason against the horn. Its legit, but doesn't carry a lot of weight.
As said, it has a FAST cooldown and there are several champs that can really take great advantage of it...those that dont have a gapcloser OR have one but no Slowing mechanism. This helps them chase, be tougher, plus be able to catch an enemy in the first place that is out of position to be able to land the gapcloser in teh first place.

The high HP5 isn't anything to sneeze at...its as good as you can get except for Philo/Emblem.


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Kayote

Senior Member

05-07-2013

I love the horn. When I get champs like Alistar and Leona it helps my initiation, and pretty much lets me wade through a fight and take little to no damage. It's cooldown is usually timed with my longest cooldown spell, and it's cheap


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W3rDGotMilk

Senior Member

05-07-2013

This all still comes down to IF you are considering horn THEN you are a stronger force late game AND you need to do what you can to get there without giving the other team an advantage. Meaning sustain for you and your team to draw out the game is what you really want.