Smite is Removed as a Summoner Spell and Red/Blue reduced by 460hp

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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

05-05-2013

Then stick the current summoner spell smite as an active ability on the "Spirit of the XXX" Items.
Hunter's Machete Price increased slightly (perhaps) with a new active added (To help vs Nunu, Warick, etc stealing ya stuff / Dick allies / QoL)
Stealth Nerf to the "Spirit of the XXX" Items being too good on non junglers, since the price is increased due to the addition of the Smite Active.
A Buff to the gold income of all junglers that only effects junglers so they can afford the increased jungle item cost and better items in general.


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READ THE ENTIRE POST OR YOU ARE NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM AND ***** AT ME ABOUT IT.
Yes that means you, yes YOU. You the person that didn't read the section about smite not stacking. You know who you are.

Any Questions, Free Free to ask I am doing my best to explain Everything. All changes are described in detail below.
Pros
  • Now it won't be obvious who the enemy jungler is without scouting
  • It won't be obvious if you are the jungler without being scouted.
  • Opens up lots of potential jungle picks and options. Want to jungle as Malz, Karthus, Akali? Now you can, the enemy won't blindly counter invade you.
  • The jungler will still have smite later, so you can still secure Dragons, Barons, Etc.
  • Opens up more champions to be able to jungle
  • Early invades now require more skill to steal buffs, no more "smite griefing".
  • No more complains about players jungling without smite
  • If your jungler is DC, AFK at the start or you just got a troll that didn't want to do it, you could buy a machete and be a replacement jungler.
  • Junglers have one more summoner spell to play with and are on even footing with everyone else in teamfights.
  • Easier for new Players to understand, no more players wasting smite and being unable to jungle.
  • Easier to teach to new players, no more players attempting to jungle without smite.
  • Better for good players. Want to make a comp around a jungle Xerath designed to counter the TSM Jungle Teemo? Now you can.
  • Guys my jungle Teemo can't win vs that Jungle Xerath! Zed can we lane swap? - Zed says sure and buys a machete.

Cons
  • Nothing is stopping other people from also getting the jungler item with smite on it. Thus I propose that every successive smite on a unit reduces the damage of that smite by 50%. So if two people smite the same target (IE the first guy fails) then the second guys smite does 50% less damage, the 3rd guy 75% less damage, etc. This is to prevent entire teams stacking smite.
  • Someone also pointed out certain champions with strong Anti Monster abilities by default (Nunu) could pose to be a problem early game for securing your own buffs even if they are not the jungler. A Fix for this would be to add a much weaker version of smite to the Hunter's Machete with about the same strength of their ability on a rather long cooldown that upgrades into the current smite.
  • Wriggles Lantern already has an Active Ability on it, so it would need a rework since items can't have two active abilities. It needs a new active anyway, Sightstones exist now.
  • Might need to rebalance the current strong junglers around having access to two summoner spells instead of the current 1+Smite.

Example
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Spirit of the Spectral Wraith - New Price 2500g*
*Note - This is an example price.

50 ability power
+10 mana regen
+10% cooldown reduction
Passive
Unique Passive: +20% spell vamp
Unique Passive: Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 25%.

Unique Active - Smite: Deals 460 + (lvl x 30) True damage to a enemy minion, pet, neutral monster. Each successive smite deals 50% less damage. 60 second cooldown.*

*Note - This is what smite currently is as a summoner spell. When it is no longer a summoner spell we can increase the cooldown dramatically, altar its damage among other things. 1 min cooldown too short, 500g upgrade too cheap? All of these things can be changed.
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Hunters Machete - New Price ???g*

Unique Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 10%.
Unique Passive - Rend: Your basic attacks deal 10 bonus true damage to monsters.

Unique Passive - Taunt: Damaging Monsters causes them to be marked for a few seconds. You will gain full xp/gold and buffs from killing this monster provided the killer is friendly. You may activate this item to toggle the passive on/off.

*Note - Personally I do not believe any changes to the Machete are required for reasons already explained, only that the top tier items get the smite active. Out of the two ideas, a mini smite or the aura item active, the aura active would be superior. That way your team can help you go all out on a buff without fear of them denying you xp/gold/buffs and you can be as effective and efficient as possible.

Edit - Removed the mini smite idea for now since its just confusing people.
**Concept** - Remake of Wriggles Lantern
People have been asking "GG Wriggles" and so I went to the drawing board and decided to come up with something for wriggles too. I designed the active for aggressive junglers that want to go and farm buffs for their team. Maybe we stick this active on the Spirit items instead and give Wriggles Smite? Let me know what you think.

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Wriggles Lantern

+30 armor
+15 attack damage
+10% life steal
Unique Passive - Maim: Your basic attacks against minions and monsters have a 25% chance to deal 500 additional magic damage.
Unique Active - Soul Transfer. Upon using this ability store one "Blessing of the" buff inside the lantern for 10 seconds. Use again to transfer buff to selected ally. If you already have both blessings, the oldest one is stored in the lantern automatically. 1 minute cooldown.*

*Note - If you have both buffs when you use this item, self casting it will cause the Red/Blue to switch. So if the first use put the red inside but you wanted to put the blue inside, simply use it again within them 10 seconds. Buffs you transfer to someone will not have full duration, they'll have whatever duration is left on them at the point you put the in the lantern.
New Smite Explained
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Using Smite now debuffs all your allies in a very large aoe (Think 4000 range or so) and anyone that enters that AoE for 10 seconds. This is to prevent teams not only stacking smite on a single target burning it too fast (Dragon / Baron) but also to prevent teams using smite on one objective then using someone elses smite on another nearby objective. The enemy would not be able to see this debuff and it would be per team, meaning if you used smite on baron after the enemy had used smite on the baron you'd still do full damage.
Increasing Jungler gold without encouraging lanes to steal all of it from you
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Killing a jungle camp adds a stacking +gold buff to your champion for x seconds that causes the next monster you kill to reward even more gold up to a cap. Example if the buff was +2 gold per cleared camp and stacked up to 5 times, after 5 camp clears they would all be worth 10 extra gold provided you keep killing them. Numbers not final but this is the general idea. This also would reward counter jungling since now you have your buff stacked up, invading the enemy jungle to steal their stuff for even more gold sounds rather temping doesn't it?

Because this system does not buff the gold of each camp on its own but only of chaining camps together, this will not effect mid taking wraiths, bot/top taking golems, etc. They would need to actively leave their lane and kill multiple camps to benefit from this buff. You would not lose your buff stack entirely if you go gank, you'd slowly lose one stack after a set amount of time. The longer you are out of your jungle not killing monsters, the less gold you'll get from it so you better make that gank count!

TLDR - More gold/XP for full clears, Less Gold/XP for single camps, Jungle Respawns faster, Encourage Ganking/Roaming, Discourage camping.
Why Current Smite is bad.
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Let's compare LoL to Starcraft II for a moment shall we?

It's fairly easy to tell if a zerg is tripple expanding in SC2, if you scout it. If you don't scout it you will never know for certain and they can punish you for it. Likewise if you are tripple expanding as zerg and you are scouted you can expect the enemy to react to this and punish you for it. Tripple Expand zerg vs A Protoss 4 gate? Expect to die, unless you adapt your strategy. This is why do your best to deny scouting, this is why you do your best to avoid being scouted and this is why you react to being scouted. Maphacks are not allowed, there is no skill to game telling you what the enemy is doing.

Understand so far? Good. Then understand this, Smite is to LoL what Maphacks are to SCII. The champion with smite is telling you exactly what the you/enemy is doing, in the loadscreen. You cannot change this, you are stuck with this decision. This is bad. You are scouted, you cannot deny this scouting, the enemy knows and will counter you instantly. This feeling is even worse if you are the one that "lost" this loadscreen war. This is why only "certain" champions are allowed to jungle, not because they are the only ones who can, but because the loadscreen tells the enemy "Hey guys, Our jungler is Annie. Send your Lee Sin to invade her, she can't do **** about it!".

Team A should not be able to know to blindly counter Team B from the loadscreen. The Loadscreen should not tell Team B that Team A is going to **** their **** up. Both sides need to and should learn to do some damn scouting.
I don't play SCII and I do not understand this comparison.
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If you want an example that is even closer to home let's look at DotA. Yes, DotA. DotA had this exact same problem years ago, where something was too good and forced everyone to play a certain way as a result. 6.4X DotA everyone rushed blink dagger, they had no choice.
Why can't we just hide summoner spells on the loadscreen instead. Thats the issue right, the loadscreen being maphax?
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No, that makes the situation worse. Here's the thing, Smite as a summoner spell has no effect on the balance of the lane. You can't smite a champion, you can't use smite to win a lane, a teamfight, etc. Not knowing someone having smite is one thing, not knowing someone having Flash/Exhaust, Flash/Ignite, etc is another. This greatly impacts the game balance and is info that the loading screen must display. Not only that, knowing/not knowing this info doesn't dictate which lane you'll find them champions in. This is why Blind Pick is not balanced and Draft Pick is. ARAM is Smite in Game mode form. This is why ARAM is imbalanced as all ****, you have no way to adapt and the loadscreen tells you your fate. You are all going mid, have fun.

Oh and before anyone says "Why don't you just have the summoner spells revealed once you have seen the enemy" here is why. All this would cause is having every support in the game run CV and they would CV the enemy base at the start of the game to find out what everyones summoners is. So now instead of having junglers forced to go smite, we have supports forced to run CV and we are back to square one.
No one should be forced to have to run a certain summoner spell. It is their summoner spells, not yours. Period.
Void I jungle and I am told I must take smite every game. Why will I not have to rush Smite if it became an Item?
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Because Smite as a summoner spell is brokenly strong at the early levels of the game which made it a requirement, but at the mid-late stages of the game it does not scale like champion damage does. Smite at level one does 33% of the Blue/Reds Max HP. Thats nuts. Imagine if a champion could do that to another champion at level one with a summoner spell? Yeah, no reason not to take it right? Well thats why teams have one smite each. Without smite you cannot contest another smite, because smite just does way too much damage. However the damage smite does to baron/dragon is much much less at around 10% Max Hp or so. By the time you get around to fighting them, the damage of smite is used only to last hit and not aid in the kill. Sure it helps, but its not 33% of its max HP, its not going to die super fast because you have smite.

Think about how stupid Smite would be if it did the same MaxHp % of the Red/Blue hp it does to Baron. Smite at level 18 does 1000 damage. Baron when it spawns has 8800 hp. 33% of 8800 hp is around 2900 health, nearly 3x what smite would do when maxed. Hopefully now you understand why Smite at level one is broken for damage but smite at level 18 is not.
Void, you have thought about this WAY to much. But why? Why is this even needed?
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To put it simply, its an Anti Fun mechanic. It is this games version of denying. If you don't have smite you get denied, if you have smite and they don't you deny. If you both have smite you are constantly trying to deny each other. It forces you to play a certain way or be left behind. Having to start with smite is the reason you can only use certain champions as junglers, even though you can technically jungle with anyone just fine. Smite as a spell has no use outside of the jungle, it is a nub trap. Smite on the loading screen is pretty much a big "HEY GUYS, TODAY I AM THE JUNGLER" Flag which is an anti-fun mechanic for the summoner with smite. Overall smite is just bad game design, it is a toxic anti fun mechanic and something that has plagued LoL for years.

However no-one has been able to come up with anything better to replace smite, "Don't take my smite away", "How will we ever jungle without smite", "How will we secure Baron without smite?". For the last few years I been trying to come up with a way of fixing this problem without having to reinvent the wheel to do it. Thankfully Riot themselves remade that wheel for me, with the new jungle items and willingness to stick old summoner spells on items (See Banner of Command). By sticking smite on the jungle items as an active ability we get the best of both worlds, you guys get to keep your smite but the game is no longer restricted to "one of the 5 players on a team must have smite as one of their summoner spells and only that person is allowed to be the jungler". Think of it this way, why do you take smite as a jungler? Oh its to secure buffs is it? What are you securing them from? The enemy smite? Thought so.

Smite as a summoner spell is the last form of denying this game has and toxic to the game as a whole You are denying that summoners freedom to adapt, to change their tactics. You can't lane switch a jungler. You are denying them of their own enjoyment, they are forced to commit even if its no longer going to work. There is no fun to be had watching your blue buff vanish before your eyes because you didn't press the D key first due to 10ms delay and being worthless all game now is there? No one else on the team is punished like this, not even supports.

Riot said they wanted to remove Deny from the game, time to finally remove it once and for all.

#FreeTheJungler


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Malza

Senior Member

05-05-2013

The spirit of the X items are all OP already (for a lot of laners too even) Every laner would get them everygame if they had smite.


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havikryan

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Senior Member

05-05-2013

al of a sudden, nunu counter jungles the **** out of the enemy jungler.


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LordFunk

Member

05-05-2013

This is somewhat interesting.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

05-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malza View Post
The spirit of the X items are all OP already (for a lot of laners too even) Every laner would get them everygame if they had smite.
Sticking smite on the item is a valid reason to increase the items gold cost without making it statistically stronger, making the Spirit of the X items less appealing to non junglers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by havikryan View Post
al of a sudden, nunu counter jungles the **** out of the enemy jungler.
So nothing changes?


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Ankokukai

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Senior Member

05-05-2013

It would be nice, but there's still a problem

you actually need smite for other camps too, not only for clearing the buffs ~
smite speeds up your clearing significantly, and that wouldnt be posibe anymore
and since the Spirit items are pretty expensive, you would have a really hard time clearing camps until you have it, and to top that off, you would need to rush the Spirit item, so, no "leaving the spirit stone there and start building useful items"

besides that, the idea is interesting


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havikryan

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Senior Member

05-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
Sticking smite on the item is a valid reason to increase the items gold cost, making the Spirit of the X items less appealing to non junglers.

So nothing changes?
you could contest nunu with smite, no smite > no contesting bufs.


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Kcugi

Senior Member

05-05-2013

I would rather remove flash and put his ol' version from S1 into item with active.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

05-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikryan View Post
you could contest nunu with smite, no smite > no contesting bufs.
A fair point. This can easily be fixed by adding a very weak version of smite to the Hunters Machete. (Though I prefer my Aura solution + Teamwork).


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

05-05-2013

Basically, supports and another solo lane would have to buy the item as well, just to contest dragons/baron.