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Feedback - Shyvana Changes

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Glorious Triumph

Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:
Without completely reworking her, I think undoing all nerfs might be a pretty big help.

A) She would become an AP bruiser because her W would scale on AP. Which would instantly solve her wicked item problems.
B) She would be tankier lategame

I would still change the E, the armor shred just never made any sense on her.
+ A better Ulti jump. Feels like that part was never really thought through.

And for fairness, why should the enemy see the fury bar ?


Why not making the fury bar max more than 100?

May be it can be increased by rank in R

for example 100=>150=>200

I think It would be fun


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RageOtter

Junior Member

05-09-2013

@copperpoint:

While it is possible that it would be too much, modifying cooldowns is an easy task though remember it is just a snare not a stun in human form, and it roots her along with the opponent for the duration. In addition to requiring her to run up which most champions have some way to either slow or completely stop her during her approach. I agree it may need some tweaking though that is a lot easier to manage after seeing the results ingame.

As far as champions with a similar mechanic the first one to come to mind is Udyr who in bear stance can rapidly stun anyone in melee range freeling moving from person to person. The Udyr stun can only apply on the same champion every 6 seconds which in the middle of things may be roughly the same to slighly longer than the proposed change to Shyvana's Q. However in addition to Bear stance and monkey's agility speed boosts Udyr can ignore collison on recast of Bear stance and anyone he melees is instantly stunned with no limit on how many or how fast other than the 6 second limit on repeat stuns.

There is also Nautilus passive which snares anyone he hits by a melee with a 12 second limit to reapplying the snare on the same champion. In Nautilus's case while it takes twice as long as Udyr to reapply he also has so much aoe CC to buy time for the passive to cycle.

I would also compare it to Maokai Q with a short range aoe slow plus knockup on a small cooldown. Maokai has a gap closer to avoid the enemy stopping his approach with CC unlike Shyvana who has to rely on the long cooldown of an ult for a gap closer.

Even Riven's W which is an aoe stun and can go down to a seven second or so cooldown at level 5.

Those are just off the top of my head, there may be some more but the point was just to draw some comparisons. While a six second cooldown and half a second reduction to that with each melee could be a lot it is fairly difficult to pull off and requires Shyvanna to stop as well. Rather than an issue applying to multiple enemies I think the main problem is how fast she could lower the cooldown and continuously re-snare someone with some extra attack speed. So would likely require a limit to how fast it could proc on the same opponent, or just swapping the snare with the cooldown reduction from her passive.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

05-09-2013

My problem with the snare was more the fact, that she would be snared too. There is a rare number of ccs where the caster cant move too. Thrash and other "hookers" ;P maybe And some special ones that channel, like fiddle, but on a melee hit ? She is already not the best in escaping, she cant afford getting to a target, maybe in a bad position and getting snared there herself.

I imagine attacking ezreal, you somehow snare him, he flashes away and simply starts shooting you while you cant move.

No, I really dont like the idea of that. Saying, I would try to avoid cc in the 1st place. I really wonder what Riot thinks of her right now.


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RageOtter

Junior Member

05-09-2013

Ah, sorry I misunderstood your intent there. The main reason I suggested she is snared also is to work as a unique mechanic and to prevent her from being too strong suddenly. She has been without CC for such a long time I did not wish to suggest she suddenly become too overly CC based. I had assumed that when coding it the effect would be broken on her if the enemy got out as well through cleanse, QSS, Mikaels or whatever else. As like you said it would be kind of silly were she to be a sitting duck while they got away.

Either way I would personally be fine if it did not snare her as well, I just feel she needs some form of CC to make her useful again. Very few champions lack at least one form of real CC, and those that do require a large boost elsewhere to make up for it. This is the reason Katarina is back to being the same garbage she was before her rework. They took away all her damage outside of ult to improve her easily interruptable ult, and without any CC she is completely reliant on this and her team to do anything. Shyvana fares much the same right now, she can clear well and has some very limited ganks requiring summoner spells and ult making it quite painful when they get away.

This is almost as if all Riot wants is to force a split pushing mentality on many of the currently lacking champions. Improve Shyvana's clear with the new E, then have her go to lanes and help fast push towers instead of gank or something. Run teleport instead of exhaust and post laning take on the standard split push role. Rather than once again force her into the same spot Katarina now is, it would be nice to work in some CC while keeping the aspects of Shyvana that make her the same character she is.


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TheRogueThunder

Junior Member

05-13-2013

I don't mind shyvana not having cc (though I do find it odd that the dragon slows you but shyvana doesn't), but I think this should be accounted for in her skills. The cast time on her E makes her feel clunky and hinders your ability to chase. I think shyvana would feel a lot smoother if the cast time was removed.

I think her itemization options are just fine since they added cdr to the spirit of the ancient golem. I personally build her with that, locket, 4% cdr in masteries and 7.5% cdr in runes gives you 31.5% cdr which gives burnout about an 8 second cd. As long as you are aaing, burnout lasts 7 seconds, so you can have burnout on almost continuously. The lower cd on q and e is awesome. It puts E on a 5.5 second cd so you can have cinders up almost permanently. 31.5% cdr takes off 1.89 seconds of q, which is like 2 auto attacks worth of cdr.

I wouldn't mind seeing some tenacity added into either her passive or her ult


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Wishmastery

Member

05-14-2013

bump


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copperpoint

Senior Member

05-16-2013

With 3.7 incoming, I am eagerly awaiting the next testchanges on Shyvana.

A stun on landing her ulti maybe ? Would make her a better initiator and jungler (as long as your ulti is up) + a punish option if the enemy actually stays with low health in lane.

Hoping for the best.
She just needs something.


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Katrisa

Senior Member

05-16-2013

What I REALLY want to see is something like the cinders with an HP based damage bonus on her W and for it to path through mobs like it was with enough oomph to feel good when hitting.

On her ult I want to see it be un-ccable during diving and to have the same base speed as her normal form.

Most of the kills I loose are due to the slow movement speed of her dragon form as when I change to a dragon people often run away.


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Prefix

Recruiter

05-16-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:

A stun on landing her ulti maybe ? Would make her a better initiator and jungler (as long as your ulti is up) + a punish option if the enemy actually stays with low health in lane.



She has a knockup on her ulti which is better then a stun.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

05-17-2013

Quote:
Killerz297:
She has a knockup on her ulti which is better then a stun.


Why is that wonky knockup better then a stun ? I dont see much difference. Personally I would prefer a well coded effect, that I can use tactically, while knowing that it works, when I need it. So either a big aoe Stun, somewhat like Malphit, or a real displacement to move enemys. The last test on that was kinda strange, it was good if you get behind an enemy and can drag him to your team/tower, but the other way around it was pretty useless or eben harmful to your teamfights/ engages.

At this point I really dont know, what Riot is planning on her. Removing the displacement effect ? Improving it ? Only on one ? Or nothing at all on that part ?