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Feedback - Shyvana Changes

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Fateborn

Senior Member

05-03-2013

I'm liking the new Shyvana. But there are some concerns with them.

1. What's the Cinder's purpose? Is it basically the function of her passive application on her old e anyway, if so, reword this so people can understands what it actually does.

2. I'm sad that the armor shred is removed, but I can understands, she didn't really need it when her damage output source is from her W, which is magical, and with the change to E, it could be particular too amazing.

3. Her ulti feels glitchy, it does not actually drag champions. Sometime it will miss champions, sometime it'll leave them somewhere between the target point and current location. Rather messy.


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RyuPhalian

Senior Member

05-03-2013

It's weird that even though people have been saying Shyvana needs some form of CC since half way through Season 2. So why didn't she get any? She still needs Exhaust to gank.


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Fateborn

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
RyuPhalian:
It's weird that even though people have been saying Shyvana needs some form of CC since half way through Season 2. So why didn't she get any? She still needs Exhaust to gank.


Because she's not supposed to have CC.


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Smited Your Mom

Senior Member

05-03-2013

I don't like Cinder, actually. It didn't seem to help her overall, but helped her jungling.

It helps her clear jungle, but makes her much less effective in terms of ganking, team fighting, and damage.

You reduced her damage through her e, and made it pass through enemies. Say if you go to gank and enemy champion, how often are you going to get a hit on them? In early game it might better, but the 2.5% may be too weak later on.

Could it increase? Could it go up each time her E is leveled?


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warrior 687

Senior Member

05-03-2013

How is maximum health Percentage damage worse than what the current E on-hit that shyvana has on the live servers? Especially late game when people often start to build a lot of health?

2.5% of the opponent's maximum health per auto attack is a pretty significant buff compared to the flat 15% of the ability's damage as on an on-hit, regardless of the base damage nerf. Unless you are building AP on her, the damage proc from her E will only do 39 extra magic damage (baron buff adds roughly 3 damage to the proc). Against a squishy champion with around 1800 health, you will deal 45 extra damage per auto attack. Against someone with 3300 health, that is an extra 82.5 damage per auto attack.

And that is without the use of twin bite...

Now I have a question of my own. Is it a bug that Shyvana's Twin Bite does not do extra damage to inhibitors?


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Cronovey

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Ubel Engel:
I'm liking the new Shyvana. But there are some concerns with them.

1. What's the Cinder's purpose? Is it basically the function of her passive application on her old e anyway, if so, reword this so people can understands what it actually does.


The Cinder debuff allows Shyvana to hit a target for a percentage of their max health. When you combine this with her Q in dragon form...the entire enemy team may end up losing a hefty chunk of the maximum HP in one shot. They can't make the debuff too powerful or Shyvana would be completely broken.

Quote:
2. I'm sad that the armor shred is removed, but I can understands, she didn't really need it when her damage output source is from her W, which is magical, and with the change to E, it could be particular too amazing.


The damage from her W, E, and R were all magic damage to begin with, so having armor shred on this champion didn't make a lot of sense, similar to how it seems silly on Taric (although at least he's supporting an ADC). Even her new E procs magic damage on hit.

Quote:
3. Her ulti feels glitchy, it does not actually drag champions. Sometime it will miss champions, sometime it'll leave them somewhere between the target point and current location. Rather messy.


I haven't had any issues with this at all yet actually. The ultimate grabs the first champion it hits and drags them with you no matter where you go; I was using this effectively to turret dive lanes by dragging their laner over a wall with her ultimate and forcing them into absolutely terrible positioning. This change is absolutely amazing for her and drastically raises her power in ganking, which offsets her lack of other CC.

So far I haven't had any issues with the new changes and both of them seem absolutely excellent right now. This is going to speed her clear back to around S2 levels, improve her ganking, and allow her to be a threat even when her W is on cooldown now.


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turulHAARP

Senior Member

05-03-2013

The change is great.It speed up both her jungle speed and can clear minion waves at top effectively.
However the problem is it relies on attack speed.
I have a hard time fitting an attack speed item into my build
Consider giving her attack speed in some form in her kit even a tiny one would help..The problem though might be that Twin Bite cooldown relies on attack speed too.
Only place where it might be safe to add is on ulti when she reaches 100 fury she gains attack speed.
We would make a decision whether we use the ulti or stay in human form and take advantage of the attack speed.

All in all it's a great change.


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Cameran

Senior Member

05-03-2013

It's a net nerf to her champion damage, while a buff to her jungle clear times. Summary:


Her E now does 2.5% max health damage on a melee hit on the target instead of 15% of the ability damage and 15% armor shred. In addition, it now penetrates targets when in human form. This is super nice, ability feels much better. AND ohbytheway, the base damages on the ability are going down by 15 per level after the first. This is a nice jungle clear speed buff - monsters have tons of health, but that was never a problem for Shyv...

Against champions, on the other hand, this isn't really even a buff (after early game - this is a moderate buff at low levels of her E). She lost 15% armor shred in exchange for 1 bonus damage per 40 additional health against targets with more than 1560 health (basic attacks on a target with rank 5 E already took 39 bonus damage per hit). When you factor in the basic attack that she had to hit with to proc this doing ~5% less damage now due to the loss of the armor shred, targets need to have around 1.9k health (or more - depending on your AD, which should be over 100 from base + some combination of BotRK, wriggles and phage) before this breaks even. Most targets don't have that much health - generally the jungler and top have approx. this amount of health in the midgame and somewhat more later. Priority targets - who Shyvana should be jumping - don't.

Shyvana already has a fairly strong early/midgame (when no one has any items) but falls off hard the later the game goes on. This just further exacerbates that problem - she still scales like **** with items other than BotRK and still can't itemize penetration.

TL;DR - This is a straight nerf from midgame onwards if you leveled E second (in other words, both her E and Q will now suck to level instead of just her Q).


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Extinction1337

Senior Member

05-03-2013

This isn't a buff, its a freaking Nerf.

I hope to god these aren't final, Shyvanna is weak enough as is.


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ExaltedVanguard

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Figured this thread is relevant and I'd link it (it's in GD).
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3406351

Anyway, it's a nerf all around.

Her E does less damage in most cases.

She can no longer use her ult stack 3-4 enemies with her ult to spray AoE on.

She can no longer use her ult to effectively dive the carry (since you'll end up just dragging an enemy bruiser to them to peel you right off).

At least I won't need to aim at the small jungle creeps to hit the big one...