[Analysis / Discussion] Akali balance at Diamond

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Belisarius09

Senior Member

05-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by akava View Post
so basically, until you guys get an a sudden idea, which could take months, akali is along side urgot. So niche that it borderlines wasted space. I don't like that it is more expectable for champions to be "eves" for extended periods of times unlike champions being strong. They should both be top priority. If you're willing to break a champion in 3-4 patchs, you should be willing to fix them just as quickly.

The fact that you don't know how to fix her means that you didn't have a plan b incase your nerfs were too much. What that tells me is that you guys jumped the gun when you flagged akali a problem and instead of looking at changes that would bring her in line based on her as a champion, you just figured you could shot first and ask questions later.

Shame.
quoted for truth!


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Siriner

Senior Member

05-09-2013

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Originally Posted by Hexten View Post
The very least they could do is increase the AP ratio of denotation by 0.05. It's such a very easy change before 3.7 patch. I don't want to wait for 3.8. Its already been one month since 3.5.

Its already been tested on PBE before. It's easy to push to PBE by tomorrow. Its only one line of code to change prehaps.

If this one simple change would put Akali in a better position without having to wait endless patch cycles coming up with these so called 'neat tricks', then its a win/win.

I don't see how its possible to add tricks into an already simple kit. You have to relaunch Akali as a new champion for that to happen, and realistically, that's whack.

This is the very least Riot can do in response to his thread. R got half reverted, W got a neat trick to make up for it being murdered, now its Q that needs a half revert. Easy. Low cost. You don't have to do anything major.
yes given the timeframe and the low cost of it, this seems like a very easy thing to do, as her W and R got a slight tweak so it wouldn't hurt to give Q a slight tweak as well.

Akali is over nerfed because in patch 3.5 alone Her Q, W and R all got nerfed. So it would be nice and a quick low cost fix for 3.7 to do these changes.

* Mark detonation damage Ability Power ratio increased to 0.55 from 0.5.
* Twilight Shroud now grants vision around the area of effect.
* Essence of Shadow charge time reduced to 30/22.5/15 seconds from 35/25/15

This in turn will give her Q, W and R something in return.


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starkey xxx

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
Part of the problem with Akali (and several other squishy melee DPS / Assassins) is that she provides very little individual counterplay for her opponents once she begins to snowball. With the ability to long range dash up to 3 times on the same target, she just presses all of her buttons on the squishy person on the enemy team and the victim just has to hope that teammates are around to do something about it. That's kind of the issue with squishy melee characters in general: the current counterplay is taken out of the hands of the individual getting killed and rather put upon the teammates to do something about it. That can feel really awful when Akali's lane opponent loses and then you're the squishy bot lane AD carry getting jumped repeatedly with no valid course of action to take.
Hey! This is ridiculous! Morello literally just said this in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The flaws are a team game requires teamwork? I think you're, instead, expecting the game to cater just to you and your tastes. This is the exact core attitude that the OP talks about! :P
I main AD carry and I'm pretty aware that there is almost no-one I can 1v1 on the other team. I AM dependant on my team to look after me. If I play in such a way that I end up fighting Akali alone I have messed up pretty hard, and if my team doesn't help me fight her (or any diver) in a team fight then the whole team deserves the loss. The point of playing AD carry is that you trade your personal safety to be able to demolish anyone your team can hold at 550 range with massive sustained damage. If you want to give carries more individual counterplay to divers, you're gonna have to significantly change how the whole class works, because if not you're going to end up nerfing every non-carry in the game.

In my experience Akali has plenty of counterplay, and arguing that it's a problem that that counterplay requires teamwork in a team game seems pretty silly to me.


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Hexten

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkey xxx View Post
Hey! This is ridiculous! Morello literally just said this in another thread:



I main AD carry and I'm pretty aware that there is almost no-one I can 1v1 on the other team. I AM dependant on my team to look after me. If I play in such a way that I end up fighting Akali alone I have messed up pretty hard, and if my team doesn't help me fight her (or any diver) in a team fight then the whole team deserves the loss. The point of playing AD carry is that you trade your personal safety to be able to demolish anyone your team can hold at 550 range with massive sustained damage. If you want to give carries more individual counterplay to divers, you're gonna have to significantly change how the whole class works, because if not you're going to end up nerfing every non-carry in the game.

In my experience Akali has plenty of counterplay, and arguing that it's a problem that that counterplay requires teamwork in a team game seems pretty silly to me.
The posts Statikk makes, I find hard to believe, because it very well looks like he's looking at it in a low elo POV. The stuff he says rarely happens in high elo. She never dominated hard in the LCS, more like the exact opposite. It just makes me think that Statikk is a nooblord....

#loweloproblems

Edit: And his description of Akali, its like he's never played Akali himself. Totally unprofessional for a person in the position of Live Balance team. "Mashing buttons". "Free sustain." "Energy." Of course if you focus only on the positive sides of a champion, they look good on paper. How about talking about the average situation, where Akali doesn't snowball? How useless she is then?


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starkey xxx

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexten View Post
The posts Statikk makes, I find hard to believe, because it very well looks like he's looking at it in a low elo POV. The stuff he says rarely happens in high elo. She never dominated hard in the LCS, more like the exact opposite. It just makes me think that Statikk is a nooblord....

#loweloproblems
Personally I just think he has opinions that I disagree with, and others that I agree with. But each to their own.


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Siriner

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisarius09 View Post
Can't we just go back to season 2 Akali. That was FUN and BALANCED. That fulfilled both aspects you're trying to achieve.

Your scenario about a fed Akali being able to kill an ADC... Well yeah, isn't that the point? Certain champion classes counter other champion classes. Assassins counter the ADC and a fed Assassin should toatally be justified in being able to kill a lone ADC. Of course the ADC should have to rely on teammates for help, just as an assassin should rely on teammates to help when they're forced into an unfavorable matchup. Its a two way street. But you're saying Akali, and by association assassins, shouldn't be able to perform their sole function. Kill the squishy adc whom they were designed to counter.

This is the second time you're brought up this scenario, and this is the second time I'm telling you its not a valid argument for balancing Akali the way you are doing.

The easiest and best solution is just giving us SEASON 2 AKALI. You don't need to mess with these "tricks" of shroud giving her speed or letting her jump to shroud or any wierd gimicks like that. Akali's function is to deal damage. She needs damage. Please stop experimenting and just give us season 2 Akali. Experiment on your own time, but let us play the tried and tested good viable version of Akali.

We don't want "Little Tricks" to "edge" her back to a point of viability. You can keep your little tricks, I don't want them.

We don't want the "added flexibility" that having the passive unlocked gave us. Akali mains never asked for this, this was like opening pandora's box, all of the problems we face now stem from this one change.

We just want Akali, season 2 Akali was fine. Give us season 2 Akali.

So you ****ed up is what you're saying. You tweaked the numbers but now things that were working perfectly fine and the way they were supposed to in the past are now going out of whack. You can't further increase the ratio to compensate because it's to scary. Why the **** did you change it in the first place then. Her early game and laning phase never was strong, you never had cause to lower the base damage. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand.

This just baffles me. "Hmm we made some changes, and it didn't work out the way we wanted, now things are worse than ever before. Oh derp." There is a saying, if it isn't broken don't fix it. Akali was never broken. You ****ed up a champion that was perfectly fine the way she was. Starting first and foremost with the passive change. Until you can admit that, then these problems will never be solved no matter how many "gameplay hooks" you come up with.

Just give us back ****ing season 2 Akali, thats all we want.

Not going to lie Statikk I really don't like you. I'm trying my very best to keep my posts civil and not let my personal distrust of you affect my reasoning in my posts. But please realize that I am attributing everything wrong that has happened to Akali with you. It might not be your fault but you're the only one who's been posting in this and other threads regarding her current status. After reading your posts I really don't like the direction that you're planning to try and take this champion in. Yes you admitted that you over nerfed her, I appreciate that. But I don't appreciate that you think all these problems (that never needed to have occurred and were caused by you guys) that you think you can fix them by adding in "neat tricks."

Like many others have said, I'm really not satisfied with your responses. Also like others have pointed out, some of the things you said make it seem like you've never played Akali before and don't know how she works. Some examples (Mash buttons on the squishy, q = ranged nuke, free sustain) etc. etc. If you don't understand the champions/haven't played the champion then I really don't think you ought to be balancing said champion.

Q is not a ranged nuke. It's range is laughable and it's damage is not equivalent of a nuke.

"Mashing buttons on the squishy." No, that's not how you play her at all. That comment is really a slap in the face to any and all Akali players. If you knew anything bout Akali you'd know that one of the keys to playing her effectively is precise timing, calculated judgement, and energy management. Mashing keys is a sure way to get oneself killed.

You pointed out "free sustain" and being energy based made her laning phase too safe. Well, I'm here to tell you her laning phase has never been safe. She never had a strong laning phase. The only "free sustain" she has is from her passive, which didn't used to be unlocked for free until you guys made the stupid unecessary mistake of unlocking it. Thats solved by simply changing the passive back. Please take note Akali's spell vamp is less than half of Morgana's, so don't tell me spell vamp made her too safe and OP. As to your comments on energy: Energy has its own shares of strengths and weaknesses just liek every other form of mana, or rage, or hp costs, or no costs. If you're spamming q to harass you will be low on energy, and being low on energy leaves Akali very vulnerable. Thus if she is spell vamping to heal she is pushing the lane and leaving herself exposed. Her harass, and sustain were never a problem. If you think they are then you frankly have no idea what you're talking about.
I have to agree to you.

The way Sttatik says stuff is like he has never played Akali before, esp from "mashing buttons', when does a professional live balance team person say that? It feels like its asking a statement from a 12 year old.

I also have to agree on 'free sustain' - they are only free because YOU removed the rune requirement on her passives which was stupid in the first place. Most loyal Akali mains already had the right runepage in the first place so it didn't mattered and it made her skill floor/entry level higher which was good from stopping her being too popular/being bandwagoned.

If the 'free sustain' is a problem then you could just easily bring the requirement back in.... really its not that hard. And SV/LS is alright because they have to use their skills to heal up on waves and will end up pushing it making them more vulnerable to ganks.

Also Nasus and Morgana gets 'free sustain' yet your not complaining about them.....it just feels like you are being biased to Akali.

It is also kinda not 'free' or as much as you think it is because when you guys changed her passive you knew that in mind so you lowered it from 8% to 6%.

Bottom line is:The way Sttatik comments it feels like its coming from a 12 year old, which I find unprofessional seeing that he is on the 'Live balance team'.

As an Akali main since throughout Season 2 I am highly offended by his term of Akali 'mashing buttons' I feel so disgusted now and sad, this is the typical thing a GD users would say but coming from a red..... the fact is that you can't mash buttons otherwise you will run out of energy (esp spamming E whenever its off CD) and not proc Q/chain your combo off properly.

Could we get Xyperhous, Feral Pony or Scarizard to response to this? It would be nice to see more insight from different people on the live balance team instead on ones own PoV.


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Yoru yousei

Junior Member

05-09-2013

Hi Sayath whats your thought on this skill shot did not take long to think of but

Akali can throw both her Kama to a target location and back in a arc.
A bit like Diana but slower/wider? with less damage based on distance
and at point blank still being the old Crescent Slash we all know and love.

This maybe more of a problem being op range harass though you could always loss the ability to use auto attack while it is in air to the target meaning if you Shadow dance you regain your auto attack and deal more damage with Crescent Slash.


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Conductor Fizz

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexten View Post
The posts Statikk makes, I find hard to believe, because it very well looks like he's looking at it in a low elo POV. The stuff he says rarely happens in high elo. She never dominated hard in the LCS, more like the exact opposite. It just makes me think that Statikk is a nooblord....

#loweloproblems

Edit: And his description of Akali, its like he's never played Akali himself. Totally unprofessional for a person in the position of Live Balance team. "Mashing buttons". "Free sustain." "Energy." Of course if you focus only on the positive sides of a champion, they look good on paper. How about talking about the average situation, where Akali doesn't snowball? How useless she is then?
Calling Mark of the Assassin a 'long range nuke' made me cringe. His entire first post is buzzwords.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriner View Post
I have to agree to you.

The way Sttatik says stuff is like he has never played Akali before, esp from "mashing buttons', when does a professional live balance team person say that? It feels like its asking a statement from a 12 year old.

I also have to agree on 'free sustain' - they are only free because YOU removed the rune requirement on her passives which was stupid in the first place. Most loyal Akali mains already had the right runepage in the first place so it didn't mattered and it made her skill floor/entry level higher which was good from stopping her being too popular/being bandwagoned.

If the 'free sustain' is a problem then you could just easily bring the requirement back in.... really its not that hard. And SV/LS is alright because they have to use their skills to heal up on waves and will end up pushing it making them more vulnerable to ganks.

Also Nasus and Morgana gets 'free sustain' yet your not complaining about them.....it just feels like you are being biased to Akali.

It is also kinda not 'free' or as much as you think it is because when you guys changed her passive you knew that in mind so you lowered it from 8% to 6%.

Bottom line is:The way Sttatik comments it feels like its coming from a 12 year old, which I find unprofessional seeing that he is on the 'Live balance team'.

As an Akali main since throughout Season 2 I am highly offended by his term of Akali 'mashing buttons' I feel so disgusted now and sad, this is the typical thing a GD users would say but coming from a red..... the fact is that you can't mash buttons otherwise you will run out of energy (esp spamming E whenever its off CD) and not proc Q/chain your combo off properly.

Could we get Xyperhous, Feral Pony or Scarizard to response to this? It would be nice to see more insight from different people on the live balance team instead on ones own PoV.
Agreed. People who don't play her act like there's some magic Q-R-W-E incantation like it's Diana.


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Męw

Senior Member

05-09-2013

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Originally Posted by Diovresu View Post
Calling Mark of the Assassin a 'long range nuke' made me cringe. His entire first post is buzzwords.
I agree with some of his points, but sometimes I really don't know what he's talking about.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

05-09-2013

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Originally Posted by my0w View Post
Counter-play: Vision Wards, Oracles. She dies super fast.
if you have a team, the team has CC, and they all go right for her the second she jumps on you. Sure.