[Analysis / Discussion] Akali balance at Diamond

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TheVangaurd

Senior Member

05-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
Hmm I see your point.

The way you put it, I do think pros / strengths / reward and cons / weaknesses / risk are very similar terms to me and in many ways are interchangeable.

To me a champion with, large, glaring strengths but also large, glaring weaknesses is someone I would consider high risk / high reward.
i think the distinction to make here is this:

pros and cons tend to be something you can't change. for example: an obvious pro for akali is that she has high burst damage. unless you build random items, akali will have high burst damage. that is a fact.

a con for akali is that she's inherently squishy. even if you build akali as a tank, she will not be as tanky as singed. also a fact.

thats pro/con.

risk and reward are different because they are decisions made. IE - do i tower dive at this moment? ANSWER: Yes. there's a minion wave out of tower range and i have three shadow dash charges. also, he has a MotA on him, and MotA is now off cooldown. i dive, kill, and escape. was there a risk? absolutely. i could have died regardless of how i decided to go in and when. was there a reward? of course. aside from the mental effects on your opponent when a squishy successfully tower dives, i got a kill and some gold, an experience bonus and probably some farm over top of my enemy laner.

so for someone with more depth of risk/reward - lee sin. do i q before or after i shield dash? should i shield my support or my adc? if i shield dash now, will i make it out after i kill my opponent? is it worth burning tempest/cripple on their tanky dps to peel for my carries, or should i just dive and use it to stick to the enemy carries? do i q->r->q, or should i q->q-> *ward* ->w ->w ->r to knock the squishy back to my team as well as ccing anyone hit by the dragon kicked carry?

do you see the difference between pros/cons and risk/reward now? at least in my opinion, risk-reward is what you call it when it's skill or decision based, while pros/cons are what you term the baseline. to put it in sayaths language, pros/cons are the impact, risk/reward is the skill on his way-cool chart.

this is of course, how i view it. but i think it's a delineation worth making.


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BicesterVillage

Member

05-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVangaurd View Post
i think the distinction to make here is this:

pros and cons tend to be something you can't change. for example: an obvious pro for akali is that she has high burst damage. unless you build random items, akali will have high burst damage. that is a fact.

a con for akali is that she's inherently squishy. even if you build akali as a tank, she will not be as tanky as singed. also a fact.

thats pro/con.

risk and reward are different because they are decisions made. IE - do i tower dive at this moment? ANSWER: Yes. there's a minion wave out of tower range and i have three shadow dash charges. also, he has a MotA on him, and MotA is now off cooldown. i dive, kill, and escape. was there a risk? absolutely. i could have died regardless of how i decided to go in and when. was there a reward? of course. aside from the mental effects on your opponent when a squishy successfully tower dives, i got a kill and some gold, an experience bonus and probably some farm over top of my enemy laner.

so for someone with more depth of risk/reward - lee sin. do i q before or after i shield dash? should i shield my support or my adc? if i shield dash now, will i make it out after i kill my opponent? is it worth burning tempest/cripple on their tanky dps to peel for my carries, or should i just dive and use it to stick to the enemy carries? do i q->r->q, or should i q->q-> *ward* ->w ->w ->r to knock the squishy back to my team as well as ccing anyone hit by the dragon kicked carry?

do you see the difference between pros/cons and risk/reward now? at least in my opinion, risk-reward is what you call it when it's skill or decision based, while pros/cons are what you term the baseline. to put it in sayaths language, pros/cons are the impact, risk/reward is the skill on his way-cool chart.

this is of course, how i view it. but i think it's a delineation worth making.
Very good explanation.


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Renpsy

Senior Member

05-21-2013

I gotten get so much hate for this but here some stuff I think can change Akali performance without making her totally OP or UP.

Make Her Q A Skillshot:
This now means she has to position better cause she can't just throw her Q through a minion wave, this also allows her Q to be increase slightly in damage not to mention the fact if she misses her Q, she can't combo burst.

Make Her E Larger or Last Longer:
Gives her more room to juke and survive.

Course this could be horrible suggestion but I'm just throwing them into the hotpot for the hell of it.


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Holy Malevolence

Senior Member

05-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renpsy View Post
I gotten get so much hate for this but here some stuff I think can change Akali performance without making her totally OP or UP.

Make Her Q A Skillshot:
This now means she has to position better cause she can't just throw her Q through a minion wave, this also allows her Q to be increase slightly in damage not to mention the fact if she misses her Q, she can't combo burst.
First, no, that would just be annoying.
Second, you don't want that, because they'd need to make it more powerful to account for the fact that it could miss. Which means that Akali would just kill you more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renpsy View Post
Make Her E Larger or Last Longer:
Gives her more room to juke and survive.
Her E last longer....?
Make it into a DoT?
I'm assuming you're talking about her W, which wouldn't be helped by being larger or having a longer duration.


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Enter Tragedy

Senior Member

05-21-2013

From PBE.

Akali

[W] - Twilight Shroud - Now costs 80/75/70/65/60 (changed from always 60)
[W] - Twilight Shroud - Cooldown is now always 20 (changed from 20/19/18/17/16)

Looks like instead of buffs they are contemplating more nerfs. I just don't understand.


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o O

Senior Member

05-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enter Tragedy View Post
From PBE.

Akali

[W] - Twilight Shroud - Now costs 80/75/70/65/60 (changed from always 60)
[W] - Twilight Shroud - Cooldown is now always 20 (changed from 20/19/18/17/16)

Looks like instead of buffs they are contemplating more nerfs. I just don't understand.
Actually, they are just reverting a change on the PBE back to the current live values. It's not a buff or a nerf to the live values.


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Renpsy

Senior Member

05-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Malevolence View Post
First, no, that would just be annoying.
Second, you don't want that, because they'd need to make it more powerful to account for the fact that it could miss. Which means that Akali would just kill you more.

Her E last longer....?
Make it into a DoT?
I'm assuming you're talking about her W, which wouldn't be helped by being larger or having a longer duration.
I see, oh well like I said, just tossing ideas out there, cause something needs to change for Akali.


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Renpsy

Senior Member

05-21-2013

Here is another idea, once again I just tossing these ideas out there cause hey why the hell not.

Allow Akali Ult to target allies, kind of like Jax Q skill. The trade-off, you just loss a charge for your ult with which you could have used deal damage with, the benefit allows Akali to survive and escape much more easily.

Seems RIOT is not willing to increase Akali damage output in anyway, so instead we trade for more slippery get-aways.

Course now that I think about it, it kind of kills the "High Risk - High Reward" theory this thread is going for.

Edit: One more thing I wanted to note, Akali can only target ally "CHAMPIONS", not ally minions. Cause lets face the facts if she could target ally minions as well with the range on her ult lol she escape every-time after level 6 as long as she has a charge.


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o O

Senior Member

05-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renpsy View Post
Here is another idea, once again I just tossing these ideas out there cause hey why the hell not.

Allow Akali Ult to target allies, kind of like Jax Q skill. The trade-off, you just loss a charge for your ult with which you could have used deal damage with, the benefit allows Akali to survive and escape much more easily.

Seems RIOT is not willing to increase Akali damage output in anyway, so instead we trade for more slippery get-aways.

Course now that I think about it, it kind of kills the "High Risk - High Reward" theory this thread is going for.
I like that a lot.

This would increase her skill cap.


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March of Dimes

Senior Member

05-21-2013

Even though risk need not mean simply vulnerability, I still think making Akali squishier (with compensation elsewhere, ofc) would provide exactly the balance changes needed in each ELO range. How to provide compensation? Higher ratios. Hell, you wouldn't even need to make Akali squishier if you reduced her base damages, forcing Akali players to spend less of their gold on defense, and more on offense.

Honestly, I don't see many ways to increase counterplay while Akali still has an 800 range gapcloser followed by a spell reel of heavy damage. Can you dodge any of the damage? No. Can you juke her approach? No. Can you punish her engage? Depends heavily on whether you're already ahead...