Really? OP?

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Onegarion

Senior Member

05-01-2013

I see so many threads proposing OP champs. This may be kind of ranty, but bear with it.

I am only lvl 17 (I think) so i have not played rank matches, but many times i hear people complaining about OP players. Most of you are probably not trying to think about why and how to win, but how to make it so your opponent can't. All champions have a weakness that can be exploited or they can be beat down so they don't get that snowball moment or God play.

Disclaimer: This guide is mainly for Summoners Rift. These points can be followed for any play style, but Riot will not change anything because a champ becomes OP in another of their lesser play styles. ARAM OP is not going to get nerfs if the champ is fine in other styles, especially 5v5 Summoners Rift. Thank you

My Experience

When I started playing there were champs like Garen, Blitz, Ez, Yi, Malzahar and Lux as free champs, plus a few more. All gave me so much trouble. After getting owned by them I often raged offline to myself. So i would try these champs to be at no skill to those that used it against me.

Garen looked like an unmoving tank that would leave me bloody and dead all across the battlefield. When i would kill him I felt like I just conquered the League and became the champion even if that was my only kill. Instead of ranting and complaining I bought him and tried to use him. I failed miserably and many people gave me grief because i couldn't do powerhouse people like smurfs and those that are actually good with him. I failed miserably at first, but i have gotten better and now unless you feed him, just like any other champ, he is manageable and really no problem to take down with any champ I'm familiar with.

Nidalee is one that i've seen lately getting complaints, maybe not so much in forums but in game. Really? Her range throw is really strong don't get me wrong because she has taken me early on with it, but thats about all she has that is strong. Everything else is kind of weak. Learn to time it or just don't stand still an run in straight lines.

Cho'Gath is the latest I've seen. Slow moving, decent CC, ult is ok and can help you a lot as him, but nothing that can't be managed. Cho just looks threatening. Next time make sure you have MR and get ready to possibly be knocked up or silenced or both.

Fed Champs

This is very common in lanes where a player is not matched up evenly against someone. When they constantly die to one person or one person gets a lot of kills in a short or early time. This gives a massive boost to the gold of one champ which of course gives them options to buy better items, which gives them an edge. This does not make them OP though, just a champ that needs to be squashed by the team and not to 1v1 or even 2v1 with certain champs. This is usually the most common that many people are going to point out that your opponent has been fed, but they may not pay attention to the Frozen Mallet your opponent and think they attack so fast, but they were fed to get that item and you are just attacking slow.

Another Type of feeding that i think most people think of is cs feeding. This is no champions fault...well really. Early game killing a minion gives about 16 gold per kill. If i remember right it can get up to around 26 before you factor in extras like TF's passive which gives +2 globally. So if i kill just 10 more minions in early game I will have around 160 more gold. Early game thats not a whole lot, but that just scales later. Not to mention the power monsters in the jungle that give 30+ early game, drag gives 190. Most people do leave this type of feeding out of their mind. There is a reason that they put a cs score when you look at the scoreboard or your own score in the top of the screen. (Thanks to ZedexHS for reminding me about what I like to do)

Maybe its you and not them.

Check to see what you are doing that could be contributing to this.

Another thread I read recently screamed that Regnar is OP, but the guy kept going for him in the brush. Really chasing Regnar in brush. Thats doom right there. Poppy in the jungle is bad news too. Shen using his ult to save a teammate....I mean do i even have to say it?

Getting ganked?

If you are getting ganked a lot you probably need to not push as much or makes sure you have additional back up. I've learned this the hard way. After a gank or 2 you should realize that they have your number and if they are close you need to run. Yea you took out that first turret in your lane. Good job, really gj. But now that you run to the second the enemy has twice the distance to close in on you and you have twice the distance to get out of the way and back to your turret if they haven't already destroyed your first one then you have even more distance to run, so get to it. This also gives a second champ the chance to hide one opening back and finish you off if you get away. Don't stay in lane so long and ganking doesn't happen as often.

Throw up some wards to slow the ganking especially early game. This lets you see more of the map (many of you know) and the best place is obviously in brush that champs like to hide so you can surprise them and get the jump on them.

Are you paying attention to the map?

Sometimes your allies may be pinging that an enemy is missing and you get ganked because you ignored it. Look to your allies to help with these power champs. Take note at the beginning where champs are in lanes. Know if that all 5 enemies are in lanes or if 1 or 2 are jungling or invading. Wards help here too. This is where if a champ from your lane isn't pushing throw up a "?" ping and let your team know to watch their backs for a missing enemy. Hopfully they are nice enough to repay the favor. Now no one expects you to have 1 eye fighting and 1 eye on the map. Just listen for the pings and pay attention to chats since not everyone uses pings, but will chat you.

Chasing?

It happens and unless you are faster or have a great gap closer you just need to let them run. More times than not i've seen turrets weaken champs from chasing and the tables turn from a likely kill to an immediate death and the enemy holding the lane. If they go through the jungle its the same thing except this gives their team an even better chance of an ambush and your demise. So really just don't chase.

Rinse and Repeat?

If you are feeding or dying a lot look to see how they are killing you and if you are dying in the same way, places or combos. If you are giving them the kill by not checking that brush and running right past them. Its not them being OP. They are waiting for you to walk by and ambush you. If you are waiting to stun late and die before you may want to try and stun early or wait for back up. If your stun doesn't last long enough you definitely need to wait for back up. Running through the jungle and dying? Plain and simple STOP IT. Its not working and you are not helping anyone doing the same thing and being a one trick pony except get sent to the glue factory. Clearly they are doing something right and their strategy is working.

Are they a counter?

Some of the new people may not know what I mean, but to put it simply does your champ just suck against theirs? I love to play as AP, mid champs namely Fiddlesticks right now. Most champs I play against that go mid against me tend to not touch the turret as long as I stand there, but as soon as Master Yi comes running for the gank I have secs to react to either terror him and hopefully get behind my turret or die where i stand. Some champs will never best another just because of the way they play. I know fiddle will never beat a Powerhouse Melee unit in 1v1 combat, but most range mages I can counter pretty well to harrass them to no end.

Don't try and take on a Vayne with a Sora. I mean ADC vs Support. I mean yea you can get away, distract, slow, and delay, but don't take them on. This doesn't make Vayne OP this is just your support, here sora, being squishy.

How are they good?

1 rule I think everyone should follow is to never underestimate your opponent. You may feel like you don't, but trust me you do. That Twisted fate you played last game sucked right? But you aren't playing that TF this game you are playing his kicka$$ twin brother with the same name. Every summoner is different. They use different builds, SS, and strategies. You may win 9 times in a row, but don't let that 10th get the best of you. This doesn't so much support OP, but as people get better using them they may seem better when you are use to bad TF and find the next 10 actually know what they are doing.

What Difficulty?

You know that little purple (I think) bar on every champ? Yea thats difficulty. It tells you how difficult a champ is do be good with. Zed has a high difficulty. Everyone can use his Throw and spin no problem. I mean throwing his shadow and using either of those aren't hard. Now what makes him difficult (To me) is timing everything. Since his shadow lets you switch places you have to be good to use his shadow as more than just a range adjuster. If you go toe to toe with a low difficulty and you are still learning your champ it can seem like they are OP because you don't have to skill yet to use your champion of choice.Just calm down and try something new. Again those stats Riot put up mean something they don't want to tell you that just because they thought it looked cool. This is also why the pros are SO much better with higher difficulty champs.

So think about your champs next time as well. Just because you are awesome or the master with them doesn't mean that you are always going to come out on top.

Check Enemy Builds for your build

Many times when i'm not playing well or the enemy is just getting me checking their builds can help a lot. You see a Malphite pilling on armor, do you think that charging in with AD is smart? Thats libel to get you killed. Also you see Ryze getting a lot of AP items, taking a few MR items may not be in your perfect build, but if he has the big difference he will take you and never let you get to your perfect build anyway (also it can't be to perfect if Ryze is owning you solo).

This is also how some people get caught off guard. I know recently people are using OP to AP Yi. I will say he has a lot of punch and sustainability, but that doesn't mean OP cause you don't know the counter. I know there ares till those that AD him and when you get that 1 AD guy you may be building the wrong direction. You can look at 5 AP yi and their perfect build may be the same, but the order they get it may differ. I know the order may not be as important with Yi, but an opponent with 120 AP and 1 with 70 armor are going to need a little different strategy to combat. So don't assume that you know how they are building. You know what they say when you assume: you make an ass out of u and me.

Checking their builds also can show you the debuffs that you may not be seeing before they lop off your head and put it on a steak. Your running a little slow against Sion? Janna spamming Gales every couple secs? Your attack speed lowering as you hit Thresh? All of these are probably due to their items that are giving them an aid.

Are you running solo?

I shouldn't have to say it, but if you are going 1v2 and losing, but 1 champ gets all the kills it doesn't make them OP. It makes you stupid for attempting (ganks and ambushes are a little different, but you shouldn't be falling for it often). Taric will keep most people he fights alongside alive long enough without having to deal any damage to you. That may seem like a champ is OP, but really just has aura help.

Learn you opponent

Masteries and Runes?

Many underlying factors of what make a champ strong are Masteries and Runes. If you don't have the right runes on your champ you could get beat early. Try playing an AD champ early with max Armor Pen runes and you with none. They will take you out really quickly. If you have the wrong runes on a champ you could be sunk, like HP runes on a Fiddle...pointless.

Also Masteries are hidden and can contribute. If a champ is dealing more damage they probably have a lot in the Attack mastery. Taking longer to kill more in defense. Utility is harder to gauge because its everywhere and subtle. These are subtle and hidden things that you can't see and that can make champs really powerful.

Bottom Line?

Until you can use the champ in the same fashion and every other summoner who uses him can get the same results, he probably wasn't OP. Using a champ that seems OP can reveal that they probably aren't. Refer back to my first comparison with Garen . Really he isn't OP a little strong and can play his role really well, but not OP.

Also it can help you, when you die with them, to figure out how to better counter them. If you don't die much, either you are good with them or against bad people. It never hurts to experiment with weekly free champs. Easiest way to learn champs you hate.

Know when they can jump over walls. This could save you countless times. Lissandra has an ability that, while yes it shows you where she is attacking, lets her jump over walls and make an easy gank or finisher even under a turret. Other champs have these and in the case of Fiddle his ult with jump over a wall and tear you apart if you aren't ready. Make sure you know what these champs can do so the battles don't turn against you.

Skill?

Yes there is a difficulty curve with champs. I mean they put difficulty as one of their options besides Attack, Health, and ability power for a reason. A champ with high difficulty has just that. I mean it takes a while to get those skills down. Zed and his shadow have such a bromance. Its not hard to be good with him and his shadow. I mean throw the shadow and let it do work. Use shadow for an easy get away. Yea i mean just about anyone can do that, but a true master will be able to use shadow to trap an opponent in a small area and make them wish they never saw double or even triple (lol). His shadow becomes more of an extension of his range, but a new champion on the field. A person who has mastered Zed will make any other zed look bad and make him look really OP, when they are just skilled.

Right role?

Are you just out of position. Now i know meta changes and the current set up is 1/2 top (1 being tank/bruiser), 1 jungle (may not be used in low normal), 1 support (doesn't have to have the tag), 1 adc (or DPS champ in general), 1 mid (Just about anything). You normally are not going to see a jungler like Trundle running mid or adc, but maybe top. So if your opponent is owning you and you are running mid or adc in the current meta you probably aren't going to be to successful. You don't have to follow the meta, but you still can't be a champ that won't work in the enemies meta. Honestly go ahead and run 1 tank bot/1 bruiser, 2 jungler, 1 mid, 1 ADC top. I mean i'm not stopping you, but your enemy might.

Fair fight?

Yea it sounds kind of obvious, but you have to watch the fight. a 3v5 does not mean its really unfair. You could easily win, but I'm going to talk more about early game since it can snowball into deeper outmatching late game. Some champs just can't 1v1 even on an even playing field. Its just the reality. Early game Fiddle is not a good 1v1 killer. He can harass, but its hard to kill early game. Don't over commit if you just can't win. Some games its better to hold your lane. You don't have to kill your opponent just stop them from kicking you out and taking it from you. If you have a jungler let them know that you would like a gank. They have a chance to get a kill I mean unless they are busy, i bet they will help you out (Even if they just run through your lane and leave. Oh yea it works).

-----I do not have great Champ comparison right now. If you guys have a thought let me know so i can drive this point home-----

Look at the champion

This may not mean if its OP or not, but sometimes what you hate about an opposing champion is what makes them unique. I mean Ashe has a long ult range, unless you think the whole map isn't long. That may be OP compared to some, but Ashe as a whole isn't OP. Garen comes up again, get rid of his spin or nerf it and Garen gets a new title: The Dead of Demacia. Shen without his ult just becomes another tank. Lost in a see of tankiness and armor buffs. Nidalee without her spear just makes her a walking woman with no damage. So lay off that 1 thing that makes them viable and look at the champ as a whole.

Mana and Cooldowns? What?

Yes seems a little odd, but when you have a really powerful or effective move it probably uses a lot of mana and/or has a high cooldown. This is a fact that while yes they may be powerful, a champ would be out of the fight after they use this ability. Don't get angry because This champ owned you because he use his abilities and you don't give chase. While yes chasing is one thing I say can be a problem, but if your opponent can't fight back and you CAN catch up take them out. Watch the mana and see if they can actually use their abilities. its a lot to take in and does go hand in hand with Learning the champ.

I have seen fiddle many times having his terror called out (yes I love fiddle). His terror is long, but it causes no damage and has high mana cost. he isn't going to be spamming it unless he needs to or is saving an ally. Many other champs have similar moves that either eat up their mana or won't be usable for a long time. Cause after fiddle uses his ult he is squishy and thats when you charge him.

Smurfs

For those who haven't reached lvl 30 and the ranked matches, like me, there are people out there called smurfs. They are people who have played a long while and reached that milestone and have created a new account for any number of reasons and more than likely they are better than you. They know the champs better than their level and you.

What to do?

Really there isn't much you can do, but ignore them. Really I think they are toxic (at least the 75% I've played with). I have no proof, but i tend to see them as the ones who will yell at you for doing something that any new summoner would not know or they don't want you to do. Either they don't realize or care, but they are playing with beginners not pros. So if someone rages at you don't take it personal and just move on.

Not all smurfs are bad. Some have helped me out greatly with understanding of the game. Not all are bad and some may make you the next best thing.

Just better

Come on even though you may not say it, you know there is someone out there that will just beat you. Maybe its an off game for you or they are just having their A game today. Maybe they picked up something from a pro that gave them the tip of a lifetime that cut out 150 matches of grinding and learning. This will make any Champ seem OP.


Regardless of Your reason for Raging that someone is OP, until you get more information besides one bad match against them or a great one with them, doesn't make them OP and in need of a nerf. Follow these and you should be able to tell if they are actually OP or you are just going to have others come up and tell you what I already have.

EDIT: Just reworked everything. Corrected information and added some more. Thanks to those that gave feedback and helped this thread get to this point.

EDIT: Continued Feed with an unusual feeding.

EDIT: Added mana/cooldowns and Wall jumpers. Level 19

EDIT: Added Roles and matchups. Level 20

EDIT: Added Difficulty Level 20

EDIT: Added disclaimer level 20

EDIT: Added Masteries and Runes lvl 28


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Very good post. There are so many level 30s that never figure this stuff out... even in ranked.

The main problem I think is people who are afraid to vary builds/item orders, or buy items they may not buy normally to change the situation, or who cannot adapt to using a different strategy than whatever they are familiar with using for their champ.

I used to get into that mindset sometimes too, until I started looking critically at my deaths each time, instead of cursing at the grey screen and raging at my unfair death, I started assuming every death was my fault and used that time to carefully reflect on what I could have done to avoid the death and what could have saved me. Truthfully, most times you die, it's your fault entirely, it has nothing to do with any champ being OP, or mistakes by anyone else... it has to do with you not paying proper attention to counters, or strategy, or positioning, or items, champ levels, when enemy cooldowns are up, or the map, etc... the list goes on.

Every champ has weaknesses, figure out what they are and exploit them... if they really counter you in lane, get some items to help you (and you CAN afford extra items... if an item lets you avoid any deaths, it pays for itself VERY quickly...), if you have to, play more passive and farm so they don't get too far ahead. Try new stuff for the hell of it if your normal stuff isn't working, do your own research and get a feel for what works. Another thing that will help you against a champ is just play as them a few games... it's the fastest way to see what screws them up and what their weaknesses are.


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Aplier2

Senior Member

05-01-2013

My god man, for being a level 17 you have far, far more insight and wisdom than many people I see in this game. When you finally hit 30, I would be more than glad to see you in any of my games, with or against me =).


P.S. Ryze is actually unique in that he builds mana for damage, not just AP, but you'll learn these little tidbits along the way!


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Onegarion

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Exactly how i see it. I hope to get more constructive feedback from people like you so I can update my own comments and cover a broader spectrum of reasons. 1 i forgot to put that i will do later is one others have said and I don't think of but have done, is that if you are failing in your lane and someone else is Dominating. Switch. No point in feeding the enemy when you are already at a disadvantage.

Ultimately I just want people to stop screaming OP the moment a couple guys own them with a champ. i think it would cut down on the needless excess of these threads that many people have just shot down the initial claim. Lets keep going and maybe we will get some people to think about their own strategies and maybe become better competition.


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Onegarion

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplier2 View Post
My god man, for being a level 17 you have far, far more insight and wisdom than many people I see in this game. When you finally hit 30, I would be more than glad to see you in any of my games, with or against me =).


P.S. Ryze is actually unique in that he builds mana for damage, not just AP, but you'll learn these little tidbits along the way!
Thank you for the praise, but I know these things doesn't mean I'm good at implementing them and I know Ryze scales on mana too, just hitting the basics right now. Its 3 am where I'm at so some minor details may be left out. Most of the champs I picked where really just random. I could have said Lux or Veigar instead, but good note on catching that. Also it still translates to AP damage if I'm not mistaken.

I also spend most of my time in the forums readying about OP champs to at least figure out how to stop them from snowballing against me. So a fair portion is just from the knowledge others have obtained and I learned from them.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

05-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onegarion View Post
Smurfs

For those who haven't reached lvl 30 and the ranked matches like me there are people out there called smurfs. They are people who have played a long while and reached that milestone and have created a new account for any number of reasons and more than likely they are better than you. Maybe not with the same champs, but i bet they will outdue you because they know who they want to use and they know how to use them. These are your more than likely your people going 30/0/X with Garen in your first few matches that make him seem OP or like a recent match I was in a Volibear that went 8/1/X and pretty much held top by himself. They are out there some having "good" reasons and others just wanting to yell at newer players.

Regardless of Your reason for Raging that someone is OP until you get more information besides one bad match against them or a great one with them, doesn't make them OP and in need of a nerf.
people who just stop whining and asked questions
there are also people who just stopped crying and got some help and got better and now they joined your game at the same level and will roflstomp you because someone who is better than you explained to them how to make you look like an idiot with a simple yet effective trick. These people also go 30/0/x


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Aplier2

Senior Member

05-02-2013

ehhh, AP is a stat, while magic is the damage type, although the two almost always are related (but there are some skills that scale with AP but do physical, and vice versa). The difference is mostly just semantics, any player will know what you mean.

3 am here too, which is probably why I feel the need to point out minor things that don't actually make a difference for the sake of correctness. Maybe it's because I think you're too good of a person and I wanted to find some flaw? I dunno. I try not to think too hard about things at this hour. Anyways, this community needs more people like you, keep up the awesomeness and try to never let the trolls bring you down, =)


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Onegarion

Senior Member

05-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
people who just stop whining and asked questions
there are also people who just stopped crying and got some help and got better and now they joined your game at the same level and will roflstomp you because someone who is better than you explained to them how to make you look like an idiot with a simple yet effective trick. These people also go 30/0/x
I'm not disagreeing and unless the late hours are affecting me I'm pretty sure somewhere in there I said that some people are just better. If i forgot to mention it then yes This is the step before smurf. They learned from someone who knew what they are doing or you know they say practice makes perfect and these guys prove it.

I left smurfs last for a reason. Someone being a smurf doesn't mean they are good and just because they are good like a 30/0/X doesn't mean they are a smurf. I want a smurf to be the last reason before a champ should be considered OP. I've played smurfs who did worse than me and then I played some who where the only reason their team won. Just depends.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

05-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onegarion View Post
I'm not disagreeing and unless the late hours are affecting me I'm pretty sure somewhere in there I said that some people are just better. If i forgot to mention it then yes This is the step before smurf. They learned from someone who knew what they are doing or you know they say practice makes perfect and these guys prove it.

I left smurfs last for a reason. Someone being a smurf doesn't mean they are good and just because they are good like a 30/0/X doesn't mean they are a smurf. I want a smurf to be the last reason before a champ should be considered OP. I've played smurfs who did worse than me and then I played some who where the only reason their team won. Just depends.
nah, i'm not even really talking about a particularly skilled player. I'm talking about things like when blitscrank stands in the wraith pit and pulls you to 4 of his teammates as you try to go to base by your tower. Things like this. People called nidalees spears overpowered not even having realized that people were using a bug to make them invisible for example. Theres a lot of little tricks like this.


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Onegarion

Senior Member

05-02-2013

I did not know that about Nidalee. Thanks for the feedback. Maybe after a good nights sleep (or what may turn in to a good days sleep) i will update and clean up my post, but I've also thought about a strategies thread, but ranked people would probably laugh and make my strategies seem stupid. So i'll stick with this.


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