Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Community Development, Two Years On: Riot Pls

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Look, Riot, I really appreciate the work you've been doing for player behavior. Really, truly. Tribunal, Honor, reform cards, restricted chat, these are great ideas and they've taken a little of the sting out of queuing solo.

But now you're coming up against a wall, and that wall is the fundamental limitations of solo queue. You know what I'm talking about: we had that recent featured discussion (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35559365) on how to improve champ select, and all proposed solutions kept stubbing their toes on the basic problem that you can't throw five strangers together in a high-stress situation and expect them to coolly and harmoniously develop a sophisticated team strategy in 90 seconds. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

A long, long time ago, I explained (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=959331) the toxic environment solo queue creates by its very nature: awash in rage, trapping players with trolls, strictly enforcing a mind-numbing meta, stifling players' creative impulses and desires. Now let's talk about why it creates that environment, and why PB&J's best efforts haven't fixed it.

Lyte claims (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=37109954#37109954) the problem is lack of accountability. And so, Riot, you've erected this massive infrastructure to artificially inject accountability into solo queue, with players getting treats for good behavior and electric shocks for bad behavior.

But you never answered the other half of the question. You never asked who players have to be accountable to.

Humans are smart, but deep down we're still just another kind of ape. We have a limited monkeysphere (http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html) of people we're capable of caring about. So when we care about accountability, it's because we're being made accountable to the people in our monkeysphere. What missing from PB&J's accountability equation is that, irrespective of Tribunal punishments or Honor points or whatever else, solo queue players have no reason to feel accountable to the other people in their game. Nine random faceless nobodies on the Internet who I'll never meet again--why should I care? This is why the issue has always been anonymity, not just accountability. Anonymity doesn't just let you hide from the consequences of your actions, it also lets you hide from the people you've wronged, and lets you pretend they don't exist as real people. Imposing negative consequences externally only fixes some of the issues caused by anonymity.

There's a way to play League of Legends that doesn't suffer from these problems: premade. In premades you are personally accountable to your teammates--you know them outside League, or you've queued with them before and you'll have to queue with them again. In premades you know what your teammates want from the game--serious tryhard mode, counter-meta strategizing, all-mid shenanigans, whatever. You know what your teammates can handle in chat--comments that would earn you a Tribunal visit in solo queue are just trash talk between friends in a premade. The point is, everyone's on the same page. Everyone is held accountable, not by some faceless mechanism of justice, but by their relationships with the people on their team. Lyte and his team have been trying to fix player behavior in solo queue with artificial accountability schemes, but improving player behavior is really as simple as convincing them to play together from the start.

And so I call on Riot once again to realize that their team game should never have been defined by solo queue. That League's community sucks because League's community-building tools suck. That the single biggest improvement to League of Legends, in terms of both player experience and strategic depth, would be to create communities of players who queue together, rather than crowds of individuals who queue separately.

I want guilds, Riot. I want a group chat system with structure. I want the third-party League communities I'm already part of to have a chance to interact with other communities.

And I want the notion that solo queue is the way to play League of Legends to die a dog's death.

Please, Riot.

Further development here. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=37166106#post37166106) More to come.

A breakdown of the concepts in this post:

Quote:
MathMage:
I guess I should reorganize my thoughts to some extent, because there's several concepts floating around:
-Limitations of player behavior refinement in solo queue. Solo queue is fundamentally limited by the fact that everyone's a stranger. There's no time to build trust and there's no time to build strategies.
-Limitations of strategic depth in solo queue. In order to maintain a minimum level of cooperation, everyone defaults to the lowest common denominator, and punishes innovation. This inhibits crowdsourced development of LoL's strategic aspects.
-Potential of a chat system to make the community accessible to new players. New players have no avenue to find friends in game except by playing games. A sophisticated chat system would offer access to realtime interaction with other players with similar interests or goals.
-Potential of chat and guilds to support alternative game modes. Without happening across a GD thread, third-party website, or custom game running some alternative mode, players will never find out those modes exist. Community tools allow the creation of a 'long tail' of custom game types that players can browse directly from the client.
-Potential of guilds to facilitate interaction between existing communities. Third-party communities abound, but they're isolated from each other. Putting guilds together in a shared space allows these communities to connect, share ideas, share players, and grow.

These ideas aren't all interconnected; one may be flawed while the others are valid.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Splendid Cake

Senior Member

04-26-2013

I'd love to have guilds/clans or whatever. Especially with incentive to joining one. Nothing more to say except that I agree. Well said.
672530


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this during LCS playoffs. -_- But this time I don't care. I'm going to push this message until it gets to Riot. Clans have been literally THE #1 THING I've wanted from this game ever since I started playing. They are THE #1 THING Riot could do to improve the game. It's frankly absurd to me that this team-based game focuses on solo queue for want of the tools to build an actual community.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Bump.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Bump.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Bump.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Maybe now that the matches are over this might be noticed? Bump.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Bump.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ryot PooEater

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Interesting thread, I'll link this thread to the dev team


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MathMage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Quote:
Ryot PooEater:
Interesting thread, I'll link this thread to the dev team

Thanks, I appreciate it.