@Morello ; About the upcoming Rengar "rework"

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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

05-03-2013

So uh, I'm glad to hear you're working on Rengar, and I like the proposed changes so far, but I don't really feel it's enough. The problem with Rengar, and it will be unless you really slim back on his mechanics, is that he just does too much (like most other team in a can bruisers). I'm going to be mighty impressed if you can make him balanced and strong in whatever role the player chooses for him in a given game. I'm also going to be very skeptical because we lost the kitty last time I trusted Riot


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xRaasu

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Stuff
Ohai RC, nice to see you out and about being concerned about our kitty fwiend. I'm thinking basically that yes, there are many things that need to be done and that yes, the proposed changes aren't quite enough. I am also thinking that they will (should) spend more time on it before release. I have faith. Little faith, but faith! Make this one count Riot!

Edit: So hyped right nao


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Space Wizzard

Senior Member

05-03-2013

junglers can't really compete with laners in terms of xp so basing his ferocity bonuses on levels worries me.


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Xaelse

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoKelly View Post
Sorry but its a nerf. Even a huge nerf.
That's not even a nerf, if anything it's better, because you can get to places faster, scout longer, still attack surprisingly in your ult, because they might not realise they sound :P

IMO: I like it better, you still can do the same things, so it's not changing the feel, and it's a buff on top of that :3


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Ankokukai

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Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaelse View Post
That's not even a nerf, if anything it's better, because you can get to places faster, scout longer, still attack surprisingly in your ult, because they might not realise they sound :P

IMO: I like it better, you still can do the same things, so it's not changing the feel, and it's a buff on top of that :3
I'll ask you a question:

If Twisted Fate had a 6 seconds channel to port, would you fear when you see his ult pop?

because that's Rengar with this change, and with less range


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CVonStauffenberg

Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzdaym View Post
I really do not enjoy that first sentence you used about Assassin Rengar :\.
New Riot stance: "Assassins who can do their jobs are toxic."


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Rauron

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onigokko View Post
So you're changing Rengar's feel? Got it
I don't think this point should get the downvotes it's getting. I thought the exact same thing as I was reading, and I feel like the wording could have been more precise.

I do, however, believe that these changes are necessary and healthy. Rengar's feel -does- seem to be getting changed, actually significantly enough to be worth mention, but his problems are being toned down and his strengths are getting more wiggle room.


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Krimson62

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
The goal is to be able to choose which path you want to go based on what you rank / choose to use for Ferocity / items built. With these changes where we can achieve a better balance for Rengar we can make his assassin build more viable as it won't create nearly as toxic of an experience.



It will now play for anyone who is within his vision range during the ultimate, including enemies in FOW.
but then wont you run into the same initial problem? is he a bruiser? or assassin?

They are two classes that have never mixed well.... and it will see him nerfed again and again until we're back to square one...


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Troy242621

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
I may not be Morello, but figured I can provide some insight on the Rengar changes for you guys .

The main point to emphasize is that we're not trying to change Rengar's feel at all. What we do want to change is some of the not so appreciated components of Rengar that make him difficult to balance.

One of these problems is the fact that his Ferocity effects are more powerful based on the rank of the spell. As seen since Rengar's release, builds that capitalize on double casting the ability you're maxing has been problematic (early double Q all-in builds/Tank splitpush double W build). The current solution for this problem is scaling his Ferocity effects with his level across the board (like his heal currently does).

This will make the Ferocity effects equal in power regardless of what you are maxing, allowing you to choose the Ferocity effect that is best suited for the situation you are in instead of being obligated to use whatever spell you have the most points in. This will also allow us to put more power into his base stats and base abilities which should help with his jungle clear.

Another change we're currently looking at is tweaking how his ultimate works. Currently Rengar jumps at you out of no where and it's very hard to react to him because there's not much information being conveyed to the opponent. Now when Rengar activates his ultimate all enemies that Rengar sees will be made aware that he's in the area. What this does is gives the opponent more information so that they can react to the situation.

With this change it allows us to put a lot more power into the ultimate, increasing the duration and speed. While Rengar may lose the ability to jump on an unsuspecting enemy, it enables him to create really cool mind games and toy with his opponents which we've seen from internal testing. On top of that Rengar can get to a location much quicker and stay in stealth much longer retaining the feel of hunting down wounded opponents or scouting an area for priority targets.


Nothing here is set in stone but it's currently the direction we're going, hopefully that helps shed some light on the upcoming Rengar changes.
It never ceases to amaze me how Riot actually interacts with the community,...Most gaming companies ignore their playerbase completely. Riot's fans throw a sh!tstorm on GD and they keep coming back XD.

I'm happy with ANYTHING that lets Rengar keep the same predator feel he has now AND lets me jungle him. Thanks for the incite, it's appreciated.

Also, whoever designed the Hunter Rengar skin did an excellent job,...Love this thing.


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PlatinumRooster

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
Another change we're currently looking at is tweaking how his ultimate works. Currently Rengar jumps at you out of no where and it's very hard to react to him because there's not much information being conveyed to the opponent. Now when Rengar activates his ultimate all enemies that Rengar sees will be made aware that he's in the area. What this does is gives the opponent more information so that they can react to the situation.
I've actually had a thought about this before but never brought it up because I thought no one would've ever cared to read it anyway. But when it comes to champion ability tweaks, it kind of bugs me when it's a very general tweak and not done to the extent desired. For example, with the Karma and Trundle re-works, Riot finished them and both times they've admitted they regretted something. Having a consistently bad track record with redoing something is bad. A change I've wanted to be applied to Rengar's ultimate was the notice of it. Instead of making a little bilboard or exclamation point over nearby enemies' head, how about a global roar that echoes followed by a snicker or a muttered, "Run...". Very similar to Nocturne's ultimate. I always believed Nocturne and Rengar to be a lot alike. They both have some type of catch up, survivability, and surprise element. One of the scariest things you can hear when no team fights are happening is "Daaaaaaaaaaaarkneeeeeeeessssssss...". At that point, no one would expect anything. I'd be dissapointed to see just a general tweak like the one you're talking about in the quote be applied. It's boring and very dull and in all honesty.. I promise you it wouldn't be the last time you'd hear about it. You'd be having the same issue of Fiddle Passive not being very noticeable to nearby victims. Just creating a global roar to keep that surprise element is good.

Another rebuttle is if you just have someone become alerted with maybe an overhead exclamation point, their first reaction is going to be just run because it states he's atleast nearby. A roar on the other hand would, for me anyway, trigger a different response from me which would be quickly glancing over my lane and contemplating Rengar's possible route of attack if he would even attack me.

That's just my 2 cents though.