@Morello ; About the upcoming Rengar "rework"

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

big I coteaz

Senior Member

05-03-2013

great another one of riots "reworks" to make him feel better. well I can say that riot will ruin rengar because people don't face roll anymore so he is weak.....**** go mess with some other champ riot. Go fix someone else don't touch rengar...please


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KnifeLion

Senior Member

05-03-2013

So glad to hear from Classick himself finally :3

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...ss-d5efg34.jpg


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The Dunkmaster

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
From internal testing most of the feedback has actually been that his ultimate feels much better than what it currently is on live. We were able to put a lot more power into it which made it feel much more ultimate, and allowing new strategies now that he has the ability to play mind games and create a large presence in team fights.
By meaning....

"The ultimate feels a lot better"

Is this Darius' level of "MUST USE ULTIMATE TO ACTUALLY MAKE AN IMPACT" or is it "I can use this and it's very rewarding when used well" (Shaco's Hallucinate)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RedIsDead45

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Only thing I want for Rengar is the stealth prevention timer being lowered to 1 or 1.5 seconds. 1.75 just feels like a massive gap between sometimes safety and certain death. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to being able to play the Lion in ranked once again.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Deku Shield

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
One of these problems is the fact that his Ferocity effects are more powerful based on the rank of the spell. As seen since Rengar's release, builds that capitalize on double casting the ability you're maxing has been problematic (early double Q all-in builds/Tank splitpush double W build). The current solution for this problem is scaling his Ferocity effects with his level across the board (like his heal currently does).
So...based on what you're saying, would this be a nerf to his current early game? I hope this isn't the case. Could you clarify a bit? Sorry.

Also, the change to his ultimate is completely unnecessary. You won't be able to roam/catch people out anymore. They'll see you coming and run back to turret.
You said you didn't like that his ult allows him to "come out of nowhere". Well, what about vision wards? oracles? :/

If someone is walking around in the middle of the map with out wards and I'm mia, they deserve to die for being completely map unaware.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The Dunkmaster

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ars Caelum View Post
So...based on what you're saying, would this be a nerf to his current early game? I hope this isn't the case. Could you clarify a bit? Sorry.
The scaling with level scares me too man.

Rengar is notorious for his level 1-3 burst.

I don't think this is the way to go with it unless you can sort out scaling with like...

% Damage?
Flat Damage?
Armor Penetration?

It's scary.....


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ankokukai

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextii View Post
When Rengar ults, add either

1. A badass quote "Run, weaklings, for you are the prey and I am the hunter
2. A badass roar
3. Some sort of red haze/mist flows through the land (up to the extent of his vision) making the enemy's screen go slightly red, if needed a roar/voice quote could be added like "The hunter needs a hunt
i coudnt hep it but thinking of Naruto when i read this

Naruto: the only Ninja that SCREAMS as he appears, letting every single enemy know that he's there to have his ass kicked ~ instead of you know....being sigil...come in stealthed, kill his enemy and leave without a trail, or on the words of our friend Shen - "without a sound"

Rengar is now the only the hunter that lets everyone know he's coming for them

Glad Lions cant play League of Legends, or they would facepalm at just the thought of a predator that announces himself


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hyaenaboy

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
But that's the thing, he's not enjoyable. Every single time I play rengar, I ask myself why I'm not playing Zed or Talon. They do every single thing he does, do it better, and do a bunch of other things he doesn't. He sucks and he will continue to suck as long as his ult HAS to be a stealth jump out of nowhere (not the only way to give the predator feel) and his W HAS to be a tank in a can spell. That needs to go and soon. Otherwise Rengar will be the next Irelia; boring bruiser with 50 different bad mechanics on one kit and it all sucks because if it didn't he would be broken.

A fun champion is fine, a fun champion at the cost of its viability and good design is not. =/
Zed and Talon have different roles than Rengar, to a certain degree. Zed is a mash-out-in-your-face pure AD caster that can melt anyone stupid enough to try to jump him, best suited to taking out physically weaker champions. Talon is similar, but better suited to taking out casters because of his silence, rather than AD type champions. I've felt that Rengar could be a champ that could assassinate the tougher champs like Cho, Voli, and other bruisers like Renek without fearing getting out damaged like Zed would. His lore focuses on him wanting to hunt the strongest there is, and his kit should reflect that.

If you don't like Rengar's ult and his W, what would you come up with in their place? I like the W because it help him take out tanker foes so he doesn't have to resort to avoiding them to target the one or two squishies on the enemy team for 30 minutes. I also like his ult and how it does the whole Predator heat-vision thing. What would you rather have?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hyaenaboy

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Here's my issue.

As to what role Rengar occupies, it's difficult because he currently occupies a really weird spot in the game. He's a strong top laner and duelist because with smart use of brush and his empowered abilities he can come back from certain death situations either using his heal to survive abilities or his savagery to deal 'tons of damage'. As a jungler, his clear is very slow and weak, but his ult allows him to take down enemies quickly without warning, even when they are under their turret. In terms of being a hunter, I think he should be an assassin-type, but one that allows him to hunt the stronger enemies on the opposing team rather than just focusing squishy adcs and supports, especially since the game rewards tanky bruisers more than the glass cannons or gimmick fighters.

One thing I don't like about the new patch is the suggestion that Rengar will not be able to leap after enemies using his ult. Rengar's leap is probably his most signature ability, and combining it with his ult is the only way to target priority targets in teamfights without getting caught by stray cc and AoEs. Even with Boots of Speed, which I find necessary on Rengar, I find myself struggling to catch up with fleeing targets just to leap, let alone the idea of getting right up next to them to deal damage. It also negates the 'vision' of his ult, as the reveal doesn't mean much when you can't use it to leap over terrain to get to targets. I also like the 'surprise' effect of the leap, as it allows me to take out low health targets before they return to shop, and warning them through some sort of 'DARKNESS' effect would put a damper on that 'assassin' role. I don't know many assassins who would yell to their prey "IMMA GETCH".

In terms of his ult leap being 'hard to react to' there's a lot of abilities that are 'hard to react to' that still exist within the game. There's no siren sound when Fid channels his ult from brush, Lux doesn't charge her final flash for 5 seconds, Warwick doesn't give you a quicktime event to escape his ultimate. Nocturne's 'Paranoia' works with a warning because it puts everything into a fog of war so people willl know he's ulting anyway, and secondly he can dash through terrain a long distance to visible champions without having to chase them down on foot. Last thing we need is another ability that makes the enemy team run to their turrets and cluster up while Rengar runs in circles with limited vision for a few seconds until he farms creeps because he doesn't even have a gap closer anymore.

Also, 'mind games'? What mindgames? Like Shaco's Invis blink mindgames? Liss's puckblink mindgames? Currently, Rengar's mindgames involve the jump-out-of your-chair terror of having a white lion jump out of thin air on top of you and start tearing into your flesh. (I've literally never jumped more than when that happens, and it's enjoyable even on the receiving end.) Unless you want to make his ult a perma-invis like Rikimaru, or something that has a CD reset on kill or assist, people will be able to see you coming and laugh at you while hammering cc in your direction. Even now ult-leaping is risky because the ult ends after your use an ability or leap, leaving you open to other enemy champions. The only mindgames that allowing your enemies warning when you ult is that you can make them rush to tower for 6 seconds and then continue farming their lane.

The changes to his base stats and his empowered attacks would be interesting to see, but trying to change his ultimate and remove its free leap would drastically affect the way people would approach the champion. What we might end up seeing is a stealth-based bruiser; while we don't have one yet and it would be interesting to see one, I don't think it's appropriate for this champion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Deku Shield

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Why is my opinion less valid than yours? I fell in love with Rengar and played him even before his initial QOLs and buffs. I love his assassin-ness, i love his passive, i love his SotD synergy. Then what happened? They kicked all that cool stuff in the shins because he also functioned as an AP, he had a broken heal (which didn't end up getting fixed), he has a defense steroid (WTF) and he has stealth. People tried to play him in every single damn way except the way he should be played, and now he's subpar because of that.

There's no way to make this simpler. As long as rengar has his W, and he has pure stealth on his ult, he will be stuck being a bad assassin and bruiser and splitpusher and ganker and [...] instead of just a good assassin or just a good bruiser. Further, he will fall into a class of champion Riot has directly stated is poor design and needs a rework.

Your opinion is as valid as mine, and I'll quit playing Rengar if they don't take him in the direction I'd like to see, but I do feel compelled to speak out against losing him. I've already had 3 champions including Rengar assigned to the "boring because riot ruined what I bought them for" bin, I'd like to pull him out of there one day.
You're saying you don't like the champion because in your opinion, he's bad. Well that's your opinion. And yes, you are entitled to it. However, I'll be honest with you, and sorry if this sounds rude, but you're wrong. Plenty of people, myself included, are aware of his current strength and have plenty of success with the champion. You're probably just not playing him right.